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article imageHome Owners Association Rules Versus The Right To Fly An American Flag

Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos in Politics | 21 comments | 475 views
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The McKenzie Place Condominiums Association is suing an Air National Guard member, Master Sgt. Denise James, for placing small American flags in her plants beneath her porch, which they tried to force her to remove, she refused, so they sued her.
When you join a home owners association you agree to comply with their rules, but what happens when their rules fly in the face of a federal law?

The story began before Memorial day when Master Sgt. Denise James placed 4-by-6-inch American flags in her garden, something she has done every year since she moved there in 2005. (You can see a photo of James and the flags here)

James said she was threatened with fines if she did not remove them and she refused.

After Memorial Day, James received a letter telling her that the McKenzie Place Condominium Association was suing her for $1,000 plus court costs.

Their claim is that the flags were in what is considered a common area in condominiums, which is against their home owners association rules.

This brings about the question of what happens when home owner association rules come up against a federal law which makes the flag excluded from any such rule that a home owner association comes up with.

The law is Public Law 109-243 passed by the 109th congress which states:

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED
STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential
real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy,
or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of
the association from displaying the flag of the United States on
residential property within the association with respect to which such
member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive
possession or use.


The law was approved on July 24, 2006.

James states, "I didn’t understand it. Ever since I’ve been here in 2005, I always had flags out from May through September. In fact, I always used to have more stuff. I never had a problem," and she claims that a change in the condominium association’s board has led to this.

In late June the McKenzie Place Condominium Association tried to settle the case telling her that she could remove the flags, pay a $250 fine and they would drop the case.

She refused.

But Robert W. Stevenson of the Mount Lebanon-based Stevenson Williams Management Company, which oversees McKenzie Place, said that hearing “has been postponed until August, and it may be postponed beyond that.”


The reporters that called for a comment from the home owners association have not received return phone calls.

Rules are made to be obeyed, but what happens when a group, or in this case a home owners association tries to enforce a rule that is contrary to a federal law already on the books?
article:257758:22::0
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  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Bob Ewing
    #1
    what happens when a group, or in this case a home owners association tries to enforce a rule that is contrary to a federal law already on the books?
    the group is then breaking the law and appropriate response is required, what is that response?
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Sykos Masters
    #2
    That home owner's association board needs a collective smack upside the head. It's bad enough that they can tell you what kind of grass to have in your front lawn.

    *note: I will only post my trout slap pic on request ... lol*
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #3
    @ Bob Ewing
    the group is then breaking the law and appropriate response is required, what is that response?


    Well I saw a lawyer suggest she counter-sue for trying to intimidate and sue her for something she is federally protected to do.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #4
    @ Sykos Masters
    That home owner's association board needs a collective smack upside the head. It's bad enough that they can tell you what kind of grass to have in your front lawn.

    *note: I will only post my trout slap pic on request ... lol*


    Requested!
  • Samantha A. Torrence Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Samantha A. Torrence
    #5
    lol glad I could inspire the trout slap. If more people slapped others with trout, there would be no more wars, just one big smelly trout in.
  • Samantha A. Torrence Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Samantha A. Torrence
    #6
    btw, thier actions were unconstitutional. Our founding fathers wanted America to be a land not ruled by popular passions, whether they be that of the minority or the majority. What the homeowners association is doing is illegal at the federal level. While they are under no obligation to allow her to place flags, they will have to face the federal government. In which case the federal, city, state, or other governments can also fine and punish.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #7
    @ Samantha A. Torrence
    btw, thier actions were unconstitutional. Our founding fathers wanted America to be a land not ruled by popular passions, whether they be that of the minority or the majority. What the homeowners association is doing is illegal at the federal level. While they are under no obligation to allow her to place flags, they will have to face the federal government. In which case the federal, city, state, or other governments can also fine and punish.


    Others in her position have won cases like this. I am glad she stood up for her right to honor the fallen and her brothers and sisters in the military.

    The Gathering of Eagles have stepped in with other veteran groups and they will descend on the courthouse if the associations decide to continue.

    They sent me an email notice last night.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Sykos Masters
    #8
    @ Susan Duclos
    Requested!


    You wish is my command M'lady ... lol
    Public Domain
    trouth slap
    image:41150:4::0
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Sykos Masters
    #9
    @ Samantha A. Torrence
    lol glad I could inspire the trout slap. If more people slapped others with trout, there would be no more wars, just one big smelly trout in.


    LMAO .... ewwwwwwww!!!!
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #10
    @ Sykos Masters
    You wish is my command M'lady ... lol
    Public Domain
    trouth slap
    image:41150:4::0

    I sooooo like you! Thanks
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Cynthia T. [Picasso]
    #11
    Home Owners Associations have their good points and their bad points. Where we previously lived the HOA was a real pain. You couldn't even plant flowers without first submitting a diagram of how and where they were to be planted. If you didn't get their permission they could tell you to take them out.

    Where I now live there is also a HOA but they are much better. There are rules but it seems it is more in line with keeping the neighborhood from getting trashy and all the homes always look nice.

    This one that you have written about is way out of line and wrong.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #12
    @ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
    Home Owners Associations have their good points and their bad points. Where we previously lived the HOA was a real pain. You couldn't even plant flowers without first submitting a diagram of how and where they were to be planted. If you didn't get their permission they could tell you to take them out.

    Where I now live there is also a HOA but they are much better. There are rules but it seems it is more in line with keeping the neighborhood from getting trashy and all the homes always look nice.

    This one that you have written about is way out of line and wrong.


    Thanks Picasso, i think so too.

    Off to lunch, bbs.
  • atroxodisse Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  atroxodisse
    #13
    I think HOA's should be illegal.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Debra Myers (skyangel)
    #14
    @ atroxodisse
    I think HOA's should be illegal.


    As many problems as we've seen on DJ over this very topic...I have to agree, atrox.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Nikki W (karateblossom)
    #15
    i realize HOAs are there to help maintain some sense of beauty and keepvalues up. I certainly dont want to live next to a person who cannot cut their grass or who leaves garbage all over or hass unruly pets.

    But this? Way out of line! Will they decide what vehicles homeowners drive? religions they belong to? Christmas decor? (ie...only depictions of Christ allowed)

    I do know in retirement communities like sun city, one only purchases the home and not the yard. 3hat belongs to the development, who mows, waters and plants. Therefore decides what gets displayed.

    Im not sure if this place is like sun city. my mother n law lives in sun city and we chose there so she only had to clean her inside. :o)

    I guess my point, within reason, we make choices based upon informed consent. Did this HOA change it up or did they just begin enforcing what was already in the bylaws?

    If it is contrary to Fed laws, then they will suffer greatly, me hopes.
  • avatar Posted Jul 23, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #16
    @ Nikki W (karateblossom)
    i realize HOAs are there to help maintain some sense of beauty and keepvalues up. I certainly dont want to live next to a person who cannot cut their grass or who leaves garbage all over or hass unruly pets.

    But this? Way out of line! Will they decide what vehicles homeowners drive? religions they belong to? Christmas decor? (ie...only depictions of Christ allowed)

    I do know in retirement communities like sun city, one only purchases the home and not the yard. 3hat belongs to the development, who mows, waters and plants. Therefore decides what gets displayed.

    Im not sure if this place is like sun city. my mother n law lives in sun city and we chose there so she only had to clean her inside. :o)

    I guess my point, within reason, we make choices based upon informed consent. Did this HOA change it up or did they just begin enforcing what was already in the bylaws?

    If it is contrary to Fed laws, then they will suffer greatly, me hopes.


    I hope so too. If you look at the picture, the flags are small and placed with her plants. They are unobtrusive and I am glad she fought back and that others are stepping up to the plate to back her.
  • avatar Posted Jul 24, 2008 by  Debra Myers (skyangel)
    #17
    @ Susan Duclos
    I hope so too. If you look at the picture, the flags are small and placed with her plants. They are unobtrusive and I am glad she fought back and that others are stepping up to the plate to back her.


    My thought when I looked at the photo of this woman, was that the flags are so small that I honestly don't see what is the big deal. They certainly aren't obtrusive.
  • avatar Posted Jul 24, 2008 by  Susan Duclos
    #18
    @ Debra Myers (skyangel)
    My thought when I looked at the photo of this woman, was that the flags are so small that I honestly don't see what is the big deal. They certainly aren't obtrusive.


    Exactly. I hope she sues their asses off for her time trouble and lawyers fees.
  • avatar Posted Jul 25, 2008 by  Mr Garibaldi
    #19
    These damned home owners associations should all watch this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-cKxsBapM

    Nuff said.
  • avatar Posted Jul 25, 2008 by  Cynthia T. [Picasso]
    #20
    @ Mr Garibaldi
    These damned home owners associations should all watch this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-cKxsBapM

    Nuff said.


    Next time, no forget what I was going to say.
    I normally don't watch too many videos but this one I did.
    You are right Mr. G nuff said.
  • avatar Posted Jul 26, 2008 by  Debra Myers (skyangel)
    #21
    @ Mr Garibaldi
    These damned home owners associations should all watch this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-cKxsBapM

    Nuff said.


    Very poignant vid. 'Nuff said.

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