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Police ticketed 21-year-old Melissa Farrell after she spanked her child on the behind while trying to keep her from running out into the street during a 4th of July parade in Idaho.
Witnesses signed statements to police saying Farrell went "beyond" a spanking, leading police to cite Farrell for injury to a child which is a misdemeanor that can be punishable by up to a year in jail.
Farrell says she simply swatted the child's rear end after struggling to keep the 22-month-old from running out into the street during the parade being held for the 4th of July in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
According to the police spokeswoman Sergeant Christie Wood, "It's kind of rare that we get people that will write witness statements. For nine witness statements to be written, that's fairly compelling, and the officer felt he should take action."
Farrell disputes the witnesses saying that they were too far away, across the street, to accurately observe what happened and maintains that her child was in no way injured from the spanking.
In another report, this one saying there was eight witness while the article linked above said there was nine, the police via Capt. Ron Clark, says some of the witnesses describe Farrell as having slammed "her on the ground and smothering her as she was holding her" and in this report unlike the other, it claims the police Captain states that the officer who cited Farrell "reported no visible signs of injury to the child."
She said she gave the girl a “pat on the butt” to “get her attention” and was mostly holding her with her head against her chest to calm her.
Farrell and her husband Rob, both believe that the police should have spoken to witnesses that were closer and inspected the child for injuries which the parents say are nonexistent.
Melissa Farrell said that after she restrained Laila, a man approached her from across the street and accused her of smacking the child around. She said she ignored him and didn't understand what was happening when an officer approached a few minutes later. She said she was doing what she thought necessary to keep Laila out of the street.
"I think spanking her butt would hurt a lot less than getting run over by a float," she said.
The Farrells gave a press conference asking for witnesses that were closer to them to come forward and Rob Farrell, the husband, states, "They just took these people's sides of the story, and that's it. If there was no injury, there should have been no ticket."
The couple also believe this should serve as a warning to other parents about society and reactions to parental disciplining of children, with Rob making the point, "Are we allowed to discipline our children? … If I was to grab my child, would it be a hostage situation? How extreme do we let this get? We might as well live in a country where we're told how to dress our children, when to feed our children."
The police stand by the citation, offer no response as to whether the officer should have inspected the child for injury or found witnesses closer to the mother and child and say that it is up to the courts now.
The Farrells plan on fighting the citation and filing suit against the police, with Rob stating, "We shouldn't be afraid to be parents and neither should anybody else."
This brings up a couple of questions about what the witnesses saw and described to police. If the witnesses claimed that Farrell was "slamming" the child into the ground and "smothering" her, would the police have seen some type of injury to the child and taken the child from the mother instead of simply issuing a ticket?
If after looking at the child and seeing no physical injury, wouldn't the police naturally have questioned witnesses closer to the scene and inspected the child or made sure a doctor did so?
In the first report, the article makes it clear that Sergeant Christie Wood said that "In some reported child abuse cases, a parent is taken to jail and children are taken by social services agencies. This situation resulted in just a ticket."
If the police believed Farrell caused injury to the child which is what the citation was for, then why just ticket her?
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Thanks to Samantha for the lead on this story and help with the photo.
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No problem, the first one is free... after that, well you know how it works. * evil grin*
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@ Samantha A. Torrence
No problem, the first one is free... after that, well you know how it works. * evil grin*
Not even going to ask, but I may want video footage...
If the police believed Farrell caused injury to the child which is what the citation was for, then why just ticket her?
Simple answer, looking at it just from the surface. She didn't break any laws pertaining to abuse, but she did the horrible deed of doing something that wasn't politically correct in public, and to keep the public satisfied, she becomes the sacrificial offering in the form of a citation and fine. -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
No problem, the first one is free... after that, well you know how it works. * evil grin*
LOL.
hah Mr. G!
@ Mr Garibaldi
Not even going to ask, but I may want video footage...
Simple answer, looking at it just from the surface. She didn't break any laws pertaining to abuse, but she did the horrible deed of doing something that wasn't politically correct in public, and to keep the public satisfied, she becomes the sacrificial offering in the form of a citation and fine.
I tend to agree because if she had injured the child, surely they wouldn't have left the child with her. -
@ Susan Duclos
LOL.
hah Mr. G!
I tend to agree because if she had injured the child, surely they wouldn't have left the child with her.
If there had been injury, the police would have had their badges on the line trying to justify why they DID leave her with the mother, and rightly so. There would also be a child services report, an investigation into the incident by the state, so on and so on.
Pure political correctness in action, "thou shalt not spank thy child because it offends others to see it." -
This poor woman, I saw her on TV and that little girl would not sit still for a second and kept trying to run off. You know I actually had a harness for my first kid. He kept running off and almost got hit. I said that is that, I am not going to stay inside, I am not going to scream the whole time, I am going to get him a harness. So I did. Some people looked at me like I was a horrid evil witch, and other mothers came up to me and said "Where did you get that I want one!"
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I think the police made a mistake by not interviewing people who were close to the mother and child just after the incident.
One wonders in this digital day and age if there might be a video out there somewhere of the incident, however, I have no idea how large the Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 4th of July parade is.
I would really wonder if a parent would actually do something as extreme as slam the kid on the ground (surely, people who were nearby would have observed this). What is more likely to have happened was that the kid ran out, the Mom grabbed the kid, on the way back (you know how kids fly around when you grab them suddenly, they kind of swing...) the kid probably looked to those across the street as if it was being tossed around.
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@ Samantha A. Torrence
This poor woman, I saw her on TV and that little girl would not sit still for a second and kept trying to run off. You know I actually had a harness for my first kid. He kept running off and almost got hit. I said that is that, I am not going to stay inside, I am not going to scream the whole time, I am going to get him a harness. So I did. Some people looked at me like I was a horrid evil witch, and other mothers came up to me and said "Where did you get that I want one!"
Before my headstrong first child was born, I always looked at those harness rigs as "kiddie leashes." Then Logan learned how to walk. THEN Logan learned how to zip and dart and slip out of grasp and reach. Guess who found a new appreciation for "kiddie leashes?" -
@ Carolyn E. Price (gohomelaker)
I think the police made a mistake by not interviewing people who were close to the mother and child just after the incident.
One wonders in this digital day and age if there might be a video out there somewhere of the incident, however, I have no idea how large the Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 4th of July parade is.
I would really wonder if a parent would actually do something as extreme as slam the kid on the ground (surely, people who were nearby would have observed this). What is more likely to have happened was that the kid ran out, the Mom grabbed the kid, on the way back (you know how kids fly around when you grab them suddenly, they kind of swing...) the kid probably looked to those across the street as if it was being tossed around.
That sounds about right, even the woman said in one of the articles, would she be stupid enough to abuse her child in front of thousands? -
@ Mr Garibaldi
Before my headstrong first child was born, I always looked at those harness rigs as "kiddie leashes." Then Logan learned how to walk. THEN Logan learned how to zip and dart and slip out of grasp and reach. Guess who found a new appreciation for "kiddie leashes?"
lol that is pretty much how it went with me. I only used it when we were in high traffic areas like the festivals at court house square, or at the local county fairs. It made me feel safer because my kid was like frikken Houdini, and he still got to enjoy going out to those nice places. =) -
@ Carolyn E. Price (gohomelaker)
I think the police made a mistake by not interviewing people who were close to the mother and child just after the incident.
One wonders in this digital day and age if there might be a video out there somewhere of the incident, however, I have no idea how large the Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 4th of July parade is.
I would really wonder if a parent would actually do something as extreme as slam the kid on the ground (surely, people who were nearby would have observed this). What is more likely to have happened was that the kid ran out, the Mom grabbed the kid, on the way back (you know how kids fly around when you grab them suddenly, they kind of swing...) the kid probably looked to those across the street as if it was being tossed around.
You know, everyone acted responsible up to the point that woman was ticketed. You think a kid is being abused? Well report it that is fine. She has three little girls looks like they are all about a year apart, or triplets. whatever the case she is probably the oldest 21 year old I have ever seen. Some people were writing into the news saying she needed parenting lessons and should have her kids taken from her till then.
I think those people need to be taken over my knee. -
@ Mr Garibaldi
Not even going to ask, but I may want video footage...
Simple answer, looking at it just from the surface. She didn't break any laws pertaining to abuse, but she did the horrible deed of doing something that wasn't politically correct in public, and to keep the public satisfied, she becomes the sacrificial offering in the form of a citation and fine.
Stuff like this just pisses me right the Hell off. When people SHOULD be paying attention to parents that ARE abusing their children in public, they turn away. Get a parent that---if what she said was true---had patted her child on the butt, and all Hell cuts loose...people line up to sign witness statements. Un-freaking-real. -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
This poor woman, I saw her on TV and that little girl would not sit still for a second and kept trying to run off. You know I actually had a harness for my first kid. He kept running off and almost got hit. I said that is that, I am not going to stay inside, I am not going to scream the whole time, I am going to get him a harness. So I did. Some people looked at me like I was a horrid evil witch, and other mothers came up to me and said "Where did you get that I want one!"
People who don't believe in harnesses are people who don't have kids(and hippies). -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
Stuff like this just pisses me right the Hell off. When people SHOULD be paying attention to parents that ARE abusing their children in public, they turn away. Get a parent that---if what she said was true---had patted her child on the butt, and all Hell cuts loose...people line up to sign witness statements. Un-freaking-real.
That is so true. -
@ Mr Garibaldi
Not even going to ask, but I may want video footage...
Has Sam ever mentioned I'm 6 foot tall Scotsman, Combat Medic with extensive knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, and with 23 years martial arts experience? -
If the police believed Farrell caused injury to the child which is what the citation was for, then why just ticket her? I asked that same question. Megyn Kelly, I love her, BUT she is wrong right now. She reporrted this mother didn't have a chance in this case, I disagree. The police only ticketed her,no CPS,no jail time,no investigation. It's not illegal to spank. Also what Megyn reported as the child squirming in fear of her mother seemed to me a headstrong child that wanted to run away and the mother wouldn't let her. I have three of them already. Can tell she doesn't have kids yet. -
Megyn Kelly, I love her
I'll remember that tonight... btw your cherry pie will be ready in 30 minutes. =P -
@ T.A.Torrence
Has Sam ever mentioned I'm 6 foot tall Scotsman, Combat Medic with extensive knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, and with 23 years martial arts experience?
Basically only Tom gets to see the footage if I ever decide to get bi-curious. -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
I'll remember that tonight... btw your cherry pie will be ready in 30 minutes. =P
The condition you are in Sam I think he already HAD his cherry pie. P~~~~~~~~~~~ -
Oh good God, here y'all go again ...
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@ T.A.Torrence
Has Sam ever mentioned I'm 6 foot tall Scotsman, Combat Medic with extensive knowledge of human anatomy and physiology, and with 23 years martial arts experience?
I've got two inches on you, Cherokee/Scots/Irish mutt, Combat Engineer, Firefighter, and a black belt in tae kwon brawl :)
LOL -
@ Susan Duclos
The condition you are in Sam I think he already HAD his cherry pie. P~~~~~~~~~~~
I make some damn good cherry pie. lol -
@ Carolyn E. Price (gohomelaker)
Oh good God, here y'all go again ...
We cannot seem to help it somehow....lololol -
Personally, I've a hankering for some southern peach pie...
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All of you, stop with the pies, now I want pie...sheeesh
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@ Mr Garibaldi
I've got two inches on you, Cherokee/Scots/Irish mutt, Combat Engineer, Firefighter, and a black belt in tae kwon brawl :)
LOL
Long Fist Wu Shu,Southern Fist Wu Shu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Kempo, Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Eagle Claw, Baji quan, and I've trained with the Shaolin monks as well as MANYother styles. My older brother has five inches on me,never stopped me from making him cry like a little girl. :)
Ican't believe you would even admit to Tae Kwon Do...lol NOT a martial art...lol. -
If I hand both you guys a ruler, can the girls watch ya'll "measure"? P~~~~~~~~
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@ Susan Duclos
If I hand both you guys a ruler, can the girls watch ya'll "measure"? P~~~~~~~~
LOLOLOL... -
@ T.A.Torrence
Long Fist Wu Shu,Southern Fist Wu Shu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Kempo, Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Eagle Claw, Baji quan, and I've trained with the Shaolin monks as well as MANYother styles. My older brother has five inches on me,never stopped me from making him cry like a little girl. :)
Ican't believe you would even admit to Tae Kwon Do...lol NOT a martial art...lol.
I didn't say tae kwon do, look at the last word that makes it operative...LOLOLOL.
Actually, I should have given the old standard Bruce Lee answer, "sears and roebuck."
@ Susan Duclos
If I hand both you guys a ruler, can the girls watch ya'll "measure"? P~~~~~~~~
Darlin, you know, a ruler ain't gonna work, it'd take a tailors measure... ;) -
Boys, boys, boys grow up!!!!! ROFL
It doesn't sound like that mother should have been ticketed but it wouldn't hurt her to get a harness and put on the kid.
Some people need to mind their own business.
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@ Carolyn E. Price (gohomelaker)
LOLOLOL...
Thought you might like that (wink) -
@ Mr Garibaldi
I didn't say tae kwon do, look at the last word that makes it operative...LOLOLOL.
Actually, I should have given the old standard Bruce Lee answer, "sears and roebuck."
Darlin, you know, a ruler ain't gonna work, it'd take a tailors measure... ;)
lordie.
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Boys, boys, boys grow up!!!!! ROFL
It doesn't sound like that mother should have been ticketed but it wouldn't hurt her to get a harness and put on the kid.
Some people need to mind their own business.
Picasso!!! Why make them act proper, I am still waiting to see if we can all watch! -
OH, forgot to ask Picasso, how was dinner?
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@ Susan Duclos
lordie.
Picasso!!! Why make them act proper, I am still waiting to see if we can all watch!
Is this the part where I flex and pose, jump up on the middle ring at the turnbuckle, and make some sort of hand motion to a cheering crowd? -
@ Susan Duclos
OH, forgot to ask Picasso, how was dinner?
Dinner was great and all nine of us enjoyed the evening very much. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Dinner was great and all nine of us enjoyed the evening very much.
Good, I am glad!
Sleep well. -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
This poor woman, I saw her on TV and that little girl would not sit still for a second and kept trying to run off. You know I actually had a harness for my first kid. He kept running off and almost got hit. I said that is that, I am not going to stay inside, I am not going to scream the whole time, I am going to get him a harness. So I did. Some people looked at me like I was a horrid evil witch, and other mothers came up to me and said "Where did you get that I want one!"
:) I had a harness as a child. Other than a misplaced fondness for suspenders in the 80's (it was the EIGHTIES!!!) and a lingering fondness for adult harnesses, I turned out just fine. -
@ Susan Duclos
If I hand both you guys a ruler, can the girls watch ya'll "measure"? P~~~~~~~~
LMAO!!! You gals go ahead and watch, I'll just sit back and watch the peacocks strutting .... purely observational of course ..... =D -
@ Susan Duclos
If I hand both you guys a ruler, can the girls watch ya'll "measure"? P~~~~~~~~
LMAO! oh man that was good.
Male full frontal nudity though? Sue... I am not sure about that I prefer them running around in boxers (no shirt) -
Got my laughs in first thing this morning! LOL & LMAO!
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@ T.A.Torrence
Long Fist Wu Shu,Southern Fist Wu Shu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Kempo, Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Eagle Claw, Baji quan, and I've trained with the Shaolin monks as well as MANYother styles. My older brother has five inches on me,never stopped me from making him cry like a little girl. :)
Ican't believe you would even admit to Tae Kwon Do...lol NOT a martial art...lol.
Sheesh. Martial arts are nothing compared to the expert skills of a hockey player. Good luck pulling off a martial arts move with your jersey over your head. -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
LMAO! oh man that was good.
Male full frontal nudity though? Sue... I am not sure about that I prefer them running around in boxers (no shirt)
Rofl, I couldn't help myself!
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
Got my laughs in first thing this morning! LOL & LMAO!
Glad to help there.
@ atroxodisse
Sheesh. Martial arts are nothing compared to the expert skills of a hockey player. Good luck pulling off a martial arts move with your jersey over your head.
LOL -
ever heard the expretion"paint your back portch red"my mother did.
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I personally believe that the witnesses were watching with there "A$$'s on there shoulders and there nose's implanted in-between there cracks".
If all this abuse was in fact being done to the child? Were they not anybody close to stop this from happening? Which I don't think the action from deputy dawg was needed if he had just ask some common questions and all this would not be up for discussion.
If I was the mother of the child who had to go through all this BS? I believe I would want to know the names of the witness's for this - I believe these people could in fact be taken to court for slander and giving false information to authorities?
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Swatting a toddlers rump is too visible. Gaining a toddler's focus, on you, in an urgent situation is effected by picking him/her up in a hug with one arm, while gently pinching about two or thee inches of inner thigh muscle with the other. The pin is intense, but will subside quickly, and the crying won't be noticed, but the child will be respectful. I compare the raising of toddlers to a mother wolf or bear raising their young. In the first four years children must learn to respect and instantly obey their adult guardian, as if their survival depended on it. Humans have a luxury of a civilized society, but Mother Nature is unforgiving. I disagree with the treament of Melissa. Had she let her child run wild, it could have been killed or injured. She did right.
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I keed a few cameras and audio recorders when I go out. I want to record the facts.
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Border Raven
Spoken like a true American. I would simply describe you as a remarkably ignorant person, and possibly a potential child abuser.
It might interest you to know (but I know it won't) that the vast perceentage of people around the world would be horrified to see a 22 month old smacked in the first place.
American parenting is generally recognised as by far the worst in the world, so of course you and Sam and Co see this as normative. It is not. But it goes a long way to explaining why most Americans are neurotic. Parents elsewhere on this planet will tell you the mother should have been carrying the child, not putting her down on the ground. A 22 month old is incapable of the kind of logic you would impose on it.
I most certainly support the right of parents to discipline their children, and I have fought political correctness since it began in the late 1970s; but discipline at 22 months is premature. It simply masks lazy and inadequate parents.
As Mike Moore pointed out, Americans carry fear with them, which explains the handgun shootings in circumstances that people of other nations would not regard as remotely necessary. Your children are raised in fear.
Throughout the history of mankind it has been uniformly accepted that 5 is the age of reason for children and that up to that time they require 24/7 protection and security. But the cultures who produce the most emotionally strongest children are those who do not commence discipline until 7-9 years. I have lived for very sustained periods in such cultures, so I can assure critics there was no exaggeration in such observations.
If you want to raise emotionally and psychologically stable children than raise them with love, affection and nurturing; or don't have kids at all. For a decade it was my job to pick up the pieces and I wouldn't wish that role on anyone.
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C'mon, you guys - you are all missing the point. We have a 6 point something billion population, and all the abortion we are doing isn't denting it. The world is getting so heavy it's about to fall off its axis. This lady should be discouraged from restraining her kid. She's got two others to pay attention to.
That said, i did my time helping overpopulate the world, and so have my kids. I know it's wrong, but if that lady needs a few bucks to help pay the ticket, i'd send it to her. I done my share of politically incorrect child restraint in my time. Raw survival instinct drove me to swat the occasional posterior to discourage repeated road disobedience. I even spanked more than i should have at times, and i feel bad about it. Poor judgment on my part.
Good topic. We need to keep this out in the open, and discuss it. Thanks for this one, Sue. Much appreciated.
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I wonder how many of the "witnesses" have children? It's usually those who have no children who try to tell those who have them how to raise them.
We cannot wait until a child is 7 or 9 years old to teach them right form wrong and to be obedient to parents. Their little characters are forming way before that, and if we wait until they are 7-9 to start disciplining them , well, they will just be horrible little brats that no one wants to be around.
As the Bible tells us: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)
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I most certainly support the right of parents to discipline their children, and I have fought political correctness since it began in the late 1970s; but discipline at 22 months is premature. It simply masks lazy and inadequate parents.
I strongly disagree. In my mind the only time TO physically discipline a child IS before they are capable of logically understanding the spoken word and reasoning.
When my son was little, he would try to touch the gas stove, I felt it best to pop his little ass because he couldn't understand the logic of "burning hot", so when they cannot understand the words, that is when you make them associate burning hot" with a little tap on the ass.
Better that than a hospital visit.
Once a child can reason logically, then you are able to explain why things are bad so they will not do them.
@ tonystep
C'mon, you guys - you are all missing the point. We have a 6 point something billion population, and all the abortion we are doing isn't denting it. The world is getting so heavy it's about to fall off its axis. This lady should be discouraged from restraining her kid. She's got two others to pay attention to.
That said, i did my time helping overpopulate the world, and so have my kids. I know it's wrong, but if that lady needs a few bucks to help pay the ticket, i'd send it to her. I done my share of politically incorrect child restraint in my time. Raw survival instinct drove me to swat the occasional posterior to discourage repeated road disobedience. I even spanked more than i should have at times, and i feel bad about it. Poor judgment on my part.
Good topic. We need to keep this out in the open, and discuss it. Thanks for this one, Sue. Much appreciated.
Quite welcome tonystep. -
What's happened, of course, folks, is the good ol' swing of the human pendulum again. From one extreme to the other. I suspect it is a good thing in the long run - just so long as we eventually end up somewhere in a logical middle ground. I've enjoyed this mostly civil discussion.
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While growing up I got my share of spankings and some of them where not gentle swats. So when I had my kids I decide to find other ways to discipline them. I have used the swat on the bottom but never an outright beating of the kids. As they got older we used the "stand/nose in the corner" or go lay on the bed without any toys, as punishment .
With my first child the "kiddie leashes" were not around yet, so we worked out a pet leash, such as used with a cat or small dog and then made a harness from left over materials. We were given a lot of dirty looks, but our kid was under control and not running around the place getting hurt or in positions of getting hurt.
I can not relate the numbers of times my stomach has turned when I see parents who let their kids run wild, especially when visiting places where the danger of injury or death is high if you do not control your kids. I talking about visiting places like Grand Canyon, Crate Lake National Park, Sea Lion Caves on the Oregon coast, places where i kid can fall to their death real fast if you do not restrain them in some form.
I think my kids have grown up fairly well and are as well adjusted as can be in a home broken by divorce.
If I had been to a parade and the cops approached an young parent after the parent had just pulled the kid out of the street and swatted him/her, I would say something to the cop. If the parent had used reasonable restraint in discipline, I would side with the parents, if the parent was excessive in punishment then I would have said something to the parents. Just because you do not like to see a parent touch a child, think before you intervene, don't just blindly jump in. This political correctness is for the birds, what we need is more common sense, and less people butting in on other peoples lives.
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@ Shelly Kemnow
While growing up I got my share of spankings and some of them where not gentle swats. So when I had my kids I decide to find other ways to discipline them. I have used the swat on the bottom but never an outright beating of the kids. As they got older we used the "stand/nose in the corner" or go lay on the bed without any toys, as punishment .
With my first child the "kiddie leashes" were not around yet, so we worked out a pet leash, such as used with a cat or small dog and then made a harness from left over materials. We were given a lot of dirty looks, but our kid was under control and not running around the place getting hurt or in positions of getting hurt.
I can not relate the numbers of times my stomach has turned when I see parents who let their kids run wild, especially when visiting places where the danger of injury or death is high if you do not control your kids. I talking about visiting places like Grand Canyon, Crate Lake National Park, Sea Lion Caves on the Oregon coast, places where i kid can fall to their death real fast if you do not restrain them in some form.
I think my kids have grown up fairly well and are as well adjusted as can be in a home broken by divorce.
If I had been to a parade and the cops approached an young parent after the parent had just pulled the kid out of the street and swatted him/her, I would say something to the cop. If the parent had used reasonable restraint in discipline, I would side with the parents, if the parent was excessive in punishment then I would have said something to the parents. Just because you do not like to see a parent touch a child, think before you intervene, don't just blindly jump in. This political correctness is for the birds, what we need is more common sense, and less people butting in on other peoples lives.
Nicely said. I have never appreciated beating any child, but to me there is huge difference in beating and swatting their butt. -
@ Susan Duclos
Nicely said. I have never appreciated beating any child, but to me there is huge difference in beating and swatting their butt.
This is true, Sue. A judge told me the same thing back when my oldest was like 3 yo...and my ex-in-laws had taken me to court alleging child abuse! I told him (the judge) that in my dictionary, there was a huge difference between a spat on the bottom and beating a child else-where on their bodies. The judge smiled and told me his dictionary said the same thing! LOL! -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
This is true, Sue. A judge told me the same thing back when my oldest was like 3 yo...and my ex-in-laws had taken me to court alleging child abuse! I told him (the judge) that in my dictionary, there was a huge difference between a spat on the bottom and beating a child else-where on their bodies. The judge smiled and told me his dictionary said the same thing! LOL!
Good for that judge. Political correctness can go straight to hell if it means allowing a child to enter dangerous territory. -
A 22 month child should have been in a stroller not running loose. I kept my children in strollers when out until they knew when mother said "Steven David!!" in a certain voice they better mind.
Too many parents today don't make their children mind.
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We sure get the whole gamut of child raising here, don't we? Our child correction plan was a combination, with spankings supposedly very limited. Problem was, i had a temper, and i sometimes hit too hard. That of course is the problem with any hitting - not everyone can control it well enough. Still, i think there is a place for an occasional swat, but better yet if it can be avoided with other means. I used to think my kids were well adjusted, but now that i see marriage difficulties showing up in their mid-life years, i am less of an authority on child rearing than i used to be. Either they made poor mate choices, or they behaved inappropriately in their marriages, or a combination of both. This does not equate to good child rearing on my part, i'm afraid. I'm better off to listen in on all you folks and see what i can learn, to maybe pass on to the grandkids. Keep up the good thoughts.
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Let's just face it -
There are some that don't need to reproduce.
OldGaDawg
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It might interest you to know (but I know it won't) that the vast perceentage of people around the world would be horrified to see a 22 month old smacked in the first place.
Tony Ryan,
My Italian great-grandparents, My Mexican grandparents, My Irish StepGrandmother, My Chinese friends and many other people I know from other countires would disagree with your assessment of the rest of the world. -
You really don't know unless you were there to witness it what really happened but if she did use excessive force and hurt the child then she is in the wrong all the way and should be punished. But yet on the other hand I have seen children closed fisted hit there parents in the face while they are sitting in the shopping cart in the grocery store. I don't know about you guys but if I ever even looked at my Dad wrong I was in deep trouble. Now days kids seem to do what they like. At work I had a customer come in and she had 3 children one of witch threw himself on the floor and starting punching hitting and grabbing at her also trying to bite her while the mother would just try to fend off the punches and repeated now now honey stop dear. Then she strapped him in the stroller still screaming at the top of its lungs, gathered the kids and walked out of the store needless to say we were all in shock.
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@ Elizabeth
You really don't know unless you were there to witness it what really happened but if she did use excessive force and hurt the child then she is in the wrong all the way and should be punished. But yet on the other hand I have seen children closed fisted hit there parents in the face while they are sitting in the shopping cart in the grocery store. I don't know about you guys but if I ever even looked at my Dad wrong I was in deep trouble. Now days kids seem to do what they like. At work I had a customer come in and she had 3 children one of witch threw himself on the floor and starting punching hitting and grabbing at her also trying to bite her while the mother would just try to fend off the punches and repeated now now honey stop dear. Then she strapped him in the stroller still screaming at the top of its lungs, gathered the kids and walked out of the store needless to say we were all in shock.
Elizabeth I normally would agree except that the police did see the child and there was no physical injury at all and they left the child with her, so that pretty much shows that she didn't "hurt" the child.
You are right though, things are different now which is why we have spoiled little brats instead of courteous well mannered children.
Some still try to instill good values and discipline into their children but far more do not even bother any longer. -
I have to say though Susan, I am wondering why she didn't have them in a stroller. That would have avoided a whole bunch of mess.
btw they sell some really cute child harnesses that look like teddy bear back packs at Target for 10 bucks.
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That was a good rebuff to Tony Ryan, Samantha. I thought about that - what Tony said is only partly true, and there are relatively few societies so lenient. I believe that also, to a large extent, those societies have higher expectations of their children, who are expected to respect all their family elders, of which there are often a great many. The relatively few out-of-control defiant youngsters in those societies probably respond soon enough to the societal expectations around them. This is not to say there are some child rearing practices around the world where there is exceptional leniency, but there is also probably more opportunity for parents and family members to help control the children in those environments. I doubt that a trip through a town with fast traffic and very adult-oriented traffic rules would be part of most of their environments.
Fantastic dialogue so far. (Should that be "polylogue"? :o) Lots of common sense on all sides. I'm greatly appreciating it. Intelligent, thoughtful communication. Speaks well of all of you.
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@ Susan Duclos
Elizabeth I normally would agree except that the police did see the child and there was no physical injury at all and they left the child with her, so that pretty much shows that she didn't "hurt" the child.
You are right though, things are different now which is why we have spoiled little brats instead of courteous well mannered children.
Some still try to instill good values and discipline into their children but far more do not even bother any longer.
I have to wonder though if part of the parent's refusal to discipline their children to make them mind/behave...isn't because of the fact that child protective services has made such a flap over even the most innocent of parental actions, which has then instilled a kind of fear into parents. I know parents that are literally afraid to spank their child because of that fear of getting turned into child protective services.
Then...you have children going to school and have teachers telling their students that parents can't hit them...and before long you've got kids that are taunting their parents with "you can't hit me or I'll tell my teacher!" -
@ tonystep
That was a good rebuff to Tony Ryan, Samantha. I thought about that - what Tony said is only partly true, and there are relatively few societies so lenient. I believe that also, to a large extent, those societies have higher expectations of their children, who are expected to respect all their family elders, of which there are often a great many. The relatively few out-of-control defiant youngsters in those societies probably respond soon enough to the societal expectations around them. This is not to say there are some child rearing practices around the world where there is exceptional leniency, but there is also probably more opportunity for parents and family members to help control the children in those environments. I doubt that a trip through a town with fast traffic and very adult-oriented traffic rules would be part of most of their environments.
Fantastic dialogue so far. (Should that be "polylogue"? :o) Lots of common sense on all sides. I'm greatly appreciating it. Intelligent, thoughtful communication. Speaks well of all of you.
Thanks tonystep. I think there are alot of parenting styles in many societies that both favor and revile corporal type punishment. -
this is bull. Some kids need a swat on the butt. My son sure does. Just think of what they would have said about her if her child ran into the road. Its a catch 22. I don't think ppl have the right to critisize her for disciplining her child. I would have done the same thing.
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@ Samantha A. Torrence
Tony Ryan,
My Italian great-grandparents, My Mexican grandparents, My Irish StepGrandmother, My Chinese friends and many other people I know from other countires would disagree with your assessment of the rest of the world.
I agree -
@ derriksmom
this is bull. Some kids need a swat on the butt. My son sure does. Just think of what they would have said about her if her child ran into the road. Its a catch 22. I don't think ppl have the right to critisize her for disciplining her child. I would have done the same thing.
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Woman Ticketed For Spanking Child at Parade
