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So. Carolina's House & Senate have unanimously passed a bill allowing the creation of the faith plate. The license will feature a cross against a stained glass window with the words "I Believe" at the bottom. The ACLU, among others, is threatening suit.
South Carolina offers close to 200 specialty license plates. State residents can select from a vast array of causes and organizations from Boy Scouts of America to various colleges or numerous hobbies like fishing or camping. The cost of such plates is $70.00, with the majority of the cost going to support the organization depicted on the plate. The organizations involved are required to pay a $4,000 start-up fee to have their specific plates created which ensures that the state itself does not incur any fees in the manufacturing process. The "Faith Plate" has no specific organization behind it and will require 400 people to purchase the plate before the state will consider producing it. It is assumed that there will be a large number of residents opting to display the plate on their vehicles now that it has become legal to do so.
On May 22nd the state house and senate voted unanimously to allow the "faith plate" to be added to the list of vanity options. The cost of the plate will be a mere $4.00 to $7.00, the wholesale cost to produce the plate, with no additional monies going to any religious organization.
The plate which features a large golden cross against a stained glass background includes the words "I Believe" printed at the bottom and is expected to be a big seller in the Bible Belt state.
So. Carolina Governor Mark Sanford is not in agreement with the production of the plate, but the state constitution did not require the Governor's signature to implement the law.
“While I do, in fact, ‘believe,’ it is my personal view that the largest proclamation of one’s faith ought to be in how one lives one’s life,” Mr. Sanford wrote on Thursday in a letter to Glenn F. McConnell, president pro tem of the Senate and a fellow Republican.
Representatives of the American Civil Liberties Union and the American Jewish Congress said they were considering suing the state over the plate. Neither organization was aware of any previous state that has approved a similar plate. A proposal for an “I believe” plate in Florida failed in April.
“The whole issue here is that people are trying to get the state to endorse their religion, and that’s wrong,” said Dr. T. Jeremey Gunn, director of the A.C.L.U. Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief. “It’s almost as if there’s insufficient support, and they have to go to the state to get it.”
Senator Lawrence K. Grooms, the co-sponsor of the bill, rejected that argument.
“I didn’t see a constitutional problem with it,” said Mr. Grooms, a Republican who is chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee. “We have other plates with religious symbols on them and phrases like ‘In God We Trust.’ Just because it’s a cross, some very closed-minded people don’t believe it should be on a plate.”
Personally, though I am a Christian, I wouldn't be interested in a plate like this. It just seems too "commercial" for my taste. But with that said, I see no reason that the state should be sued for producing it and offering it to residents. What is the harm exactly? No specific church is benefiting, and it doesn't hurt anyone - so what is the big problem exactly?
I think that Senator Grooms made a valid point when he stated that are currency here in the United States includes the words "In God We Trust" - although I am sure that there are plenty of people hard at work to have those words removed as well.
So where do you stand? Should states begin producing "faith plates" and allowing residents to display religious symbols on their vehicles? Or is this a violation of church and state as opponents are charging?
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“We have other plates with religious symbols on them and phrases like ‘In God We Trust.’ Just because it’s a cross, some very closed-minded people don’t believe it should be on a plate.”
I think that sums it up nicely. People should just get over themselves. The mental frailty of these people is just ridiculous. -
“The whole issue here is that people are trying to get the state to endorse their religion, and that’s wrong,” said Dr. T. Jeremey Gunn, director of the A.C.L.U. Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief. “It’s almost as if there’s insufficient support, and they have to go to the state to get it.”
... ooooor they just want a vanity plate. I tell you some people look for any excuse to bitch.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... -
I agree you guys....what is the big deal here? So what if they make a plate like this?
I think there are alot bigger issues to deal with in this country than whether a license plate has a cross on it and says "I Believe". Seriously, people need to just get over themselves here.
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"I believe"
In? That's the question, isn't it? The answer isn't being addressed by the plates, it simply leaves an open ended statement that let's the reader interpret as he/she chooses.
Nothing wrong with that.
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@ Pamela Jean (GotTheScoop)
I agree you guys....what is the big deal here? So what if they make a plate like this?
I think there are alot bigger issues to deal with in this country than whether a license plate has a cross on it and says "I Believe". Seriously, people need to just get over themselves here.
Well it has a lot to do with their "Look what I did" ego.
Think of it as the Youtube mentality for activists. As long as someone sees their name in the news they are happy. Attention whores the lot of them. -
So are there any plans to offer plates for atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Satanist, Born again Pagans, Wiccans and all the other religions? If not, why not?
The state cannot offer just one religious plate and not be guilty of discrimination just as the Feds are already guilty of in the case of the currency. Where are the bills that read "In God we do not trust?"
Blatant hypocrisy.
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@ lensman67
So are there any plans to offer plates for atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Satanist, Born again Pagans, Wiccans and all the other religions? If not, why not?
The state cannot offer just one religious plate and not be guilty of discrimination just as the Feds are already guilty of in the case of the currency. Where are the bills that read "In God we do not trust?"
Blatant hypocrisy.
LOL! I wondered when you would weigh in Lensman! hahaha.........I don't see any reason why their shouldn't be plates representing all of the groups you listed. I have no problem with it whatsoever. Since I don't live in So. Carolina I can't do much about it, but for anyone living there, why not request those plates as well. If they are turned away, then I think it would be fair to scream "Hypocrisy" - but until such time I think there is nothing wrong with these plates.
I would be a bit leery of anyone driving around with a big face of Satan on their license plate however - I know I wouldn't flick them off at a stop sign! ROFL!! -
So this is what that item was on the news, I had the sound off and missed it.
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@ lensman67
So are there any plans to offer plates for atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Satanist, Born again Pagans, Wiccans and all the other religions? If not, why not?
The state cannot offer just one religious plate and not be guilty of discrimination just as the Feds are already guilty of in the case of the currency. Where are the bills that read "In God we do not trust?"
Blatant hypocrisy.
Hypocrisy? How is it hypocrisy when all those other groups are too lazy to get off their arse and request to have such a plate?
The U.S was founded on Christan views not others. -
@ Pamela Jean (GotTheScoop)
LOL! I wondered when you would weigh in Lensman! hahaha.........I don't see any reason why their shouldn't be plates representing all of the groups you listed. I have no problem with it whatsoever. Since I don't live in So. Carolina I can't do much about it, but for anyone living there, why not request those plates as well. If they are turned away, then I think it would be fair to scream "Hypocrisy" - but until such time I think there is nothing wrong with these plates.
I would be a bit leery of anyone driving around with a big face of Satan on their license plate however - I know I wouldn't flick them off at a stop sign! ROFL!!
People who feel that they have the right to go about shoving their religion in other people's faces should not complain when others push back. The so called "war on Christmas" and all the other so called "attacks" on Christianity in this country are mainly defensive moves by people who are sick of having to put up with the government advertising other people's religion.
There would be a whole lot less tension in this country if people simply lived their religion and let their example be the only advertising that it needs. I agree with Mr. Sanford. People who have to tell other people what their religion is are probably afraid that no one could figure it out by their actions alone. ;o)
Well I am off to the wine tasting. I want a plate that reads " In vino veritas." -
@ lensman67
People who feel that they have the right to go about shoving their religion in other people's faces should not complain when others push back. The so called "war on Christmas" and all the other so called "attacks" on Christianity in this country are mainly defensive moves by people who are sick of having to put up with the government advertising other people's religion.
There would be a whole lot less tension in this country if people simply lived their religion and let their example be the only advertising that it needs. I agree with Mr. Sanford. People who have to tell other people what their religion is are probably afraid that no one could figure it out by their actions alone. ;o)
Well I am off to the wine tasting. I want a plate that reads "In vino veritas."
When people knowingly choose to reside in a know Christan founded country they should not complain. They should be thankful they too have the right to express their faith the same as Christians and not stoned, beheaded, lenched or imprisoned as in some other countries. -
I see no harm in these plates. It can't be any different that bumper stickers stating "Jesus Loves You!' and the various other ones that I've seen. It's an option to have one...nothing more.
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@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
I see no harm in these plates. It can't be any different that bumper stickers stating "Jesus Loves You!' and the various other ones that I've seen. It's an option to have one...nothing more.
I think the license plates would annoy me far less than the bumperstickers though. lol -
@ Samantha A. Torrence
I think the license plates would annoy me far less than the bumperstickers though. lol
I know! I tend to read bumper stickers...and it's easy to get into a bad situation trying to see what they say! LOL! (My fav bumper sticker: I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!) -
@ RCB2875
When people knowingly choose to reside in a know Christan founded country they should not complain. They should be thankful they too have the right to express their faith the same as Christians and not stoned, beheaded, lenched or imprisoned as in some other countries.
Who told you that this was a "Christian founded country?" Not only is that completely false but on the eve of the American Revolution only about 18% of the people in the colonies were affiliated in any way with a church of any sort. This number dropped to 15% by the time of the first US census (which asked about religious affiliations).
The Revolution itself was the outgrowth of the "Enlightenment," an 18th century philosophical movement that was highly critical of religion or, in many cases, down right hostile to it.
Most of the major Founding Fathers were not Christian and as late as the Presidency of Andrew Jackson many ministers were bewailing the fact that there had as yet been not one single Christian President.
Christians, or any other religion for that matter, do not have the right to have their particular faith promoted by the government. In this country we have the right to be free of other people's religion. -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
I see no harm in these plates. It can't be any different that bumper stickers stating "Jesus Loves You!' and the various other ones that I've seen. It's an option to have one...nothing more.
Would you have a problem with plates that featured an anti-Christian slogan? If one group has the right to have pro anything then others have the same right to take the opposite course. -
lensman
Christians, or any other religion for that matter, do not have the right to have their particular faith promoted by the government. In this country we have the right to be free of other people's religion.
You have te right to be anything or nothing which you care to be or not be.
Does not everyone else have the same right/
The State of SC didn't come up with this on their own hook, a group of people got together, requested it and then fought to make it happen.
They aren't getting a free ride in it, they pay for the plates.
Please feel free to fight for a plate which says: "I believe in Nothing"
And oddly enough there are a fair number of Christians who are also Constitutionalists and who would support you in the attempt. -
@ lensman67
Who told you that this was a "Christian founded country?" Not only is that completely false but on the eve of the American Revolution only about 18% of the people in the colonies were affiliated in any way with a church of any sort. This number dropped to 15% by the time of the first US census (which asked about religious affiliations).
The Revolution itself was the outgrowth of the "Enlightenment," an 18th century philosophical movement that was highly critical of religion or, in many cases, down right hostile to it.
Most of the major Founding Fathers were not Christian and as late as the Presidency of Andrew Jackson many ministers were bewailing the fact that there had as yet been not one single Christian President.
Christians, or any other religion for that matter, do not have the right to have their particular faith promoted by the government. In this country we have the right to be free of other people's religion.
Well perhaps you could tell me what types of churches dominated the vast majority of America or show an example where some other religion was more influential? Or what God do you suggest they were referring to when they decided to print"In God We Trust" on the currency? How do you explain the prominence of the masons affiliation within the echelons of the early government?
In this country we have the right to be free of other people's religion
Show me where it says that anywhere. We have the right TO religion NOT the right to penalise people from expressing it personaly. Besides no one is forcing you to buy the plate nor read it. That mentality would suggest we dismantle all churches to keep fragile minded people from being offended. -
@ lensman67
Would you have a problem with plates that featured an anti-Christian slogan? If one group has the right to have pro anything then others have the same right to take the opposite course.
I wouldn't have any problems with that at all. It doesn't affect me one way or the other what other people choose to believe or not. -
@ RCB2875
Well perhaps you could tell me what types of churches dominated the vast majority of America or show an example where some other religion was more influential? Or what God do you suggest they were referring to when they decided to print"In God We Trust" on the currency? How do you explain the prominence of the masons affiliation within the echelons of the early government?
Show me where it says that anywhere. We have the right TO religion NOT the right to penalise people from expressing it personaly. Besides no one is forcing you to buy the plate nor read it. That mentality would suggest we dismantle all churches to keep fragile minded people from being offended.
You mean when it became the official motto in 1956?
Belief obliterates thought. -
@ RCB2875
Well perhaps you could tell me what types of churches dominated the vast majority of America or show an example where some other religion was more influential? Or what God do you suggest they were referring to when they decided to print"In God We Trust" on the currency? How do you explain the prominence of the masons affiliation within the echelons of the early government?
Show me where it says that anywhere. We have the right TO religion NOT the right to penalise people from expressing it personaly. Besides no one is forcing you to buy the plate nor read it. That mentality would suggest we dismantle all churches to keep fragile minded people from being offended.
Apparently I did not make myself clear. NO churches dominated the vast majority of American in colonial times. Very few people went to church and even fewer were religious. To save time why don't you look over an article I posted on the topic a while back.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/181383
It was not until the "S econd Great Awakening" of the 1790's to 1840's that religion began to take hold in this country.
Perhaps you could tell us the religion of the top Founding Fathers, like Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, or Tom Pain? Not one of them was a practicing Christian and most of them were either "deists," "free thinkers" or outright athletes.
"In God we trust" was added to the coinage in the depths of the Cold war era, 1956 to be exact. It is clearly unconstitutional but no justice has had the courage to go after it.
No one said a single word about "penalizing" people for expressing their religion. They can cover their cars in bumper stickers for all I care. What is wrong is to bring the government into the picture on one side and against the others. It is expressly against the Constitution for the government to promote any religion--period. -
or outright athletes
In which sports did they disbelieve? -
@ Horst Wagner
In which sports did they disbelieve?
Curses! Foiled by a sneaky spell checker. ;o( -
You are talking about Colonies when we were not "The United States of America" until after the revolution and the signing of the declaration of independence in 1776.
I believe Washington was Baptist right? and most of the people were from catholic, prodistant and baptist decent.
The country was founded and built by more people than just the founding fathers and Christianity had more of a presence than any other religion. The churches that were built were of Christian denominations and rarely any other. Our basic laws reflect the Christian way of thinking much more than any other religion although they don't declare it to be from Christianity.
It is expressly against the Constitution for the government to promote any religion--period.
You mean the Constitution as the federal governments constitution right? License plates and department of motor vehicles falls under the states rights and privileges. the plates are not promoting religion they are a freedom of expression from the citizen not the government. -
@ Horst Wagner
In which sports did they disbelieve?
were you referring to atheist? Most were Deist. As I recall most of the founding fathers were free masons. Which the rules of being a member of the free masons are: Masonry welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.-
as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.
RC, you are going to confuse the Borg if you aren't careful.
It is time for it to re-assimilate. -
@ Gar Swaffar
RC, you are going to confuse the Borg if you aren't careful.
It is time for it to re-assimilate.
LOL -
What an exhibition of intellectuality!
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@ RCB2875
You are talking about Colonies when we were not "The United States of America" until after the revolution and the signing of the declaration of independence in 1776.
I believe Washington was Baptist right? and most of the people were from catholic, prodistant and baptist decent.
The country was founded and built by more people than just the founding fathers and Christianity had more of a presence than any other religion. The churches that were built were of Christian denominations and rarely any other. Our basic laws reflect the Christian way of thinking much more than any other religion although they don't declare it to be from Christianity.
You mean the Constitution as the federal governments constitution right? License plates and department of motor vehicles falls under the states rights and privileges. the plates are not promoting religion they are a freedom of expression from the citizen not the government.
Where in the heck do you get this garbage? Washington was NOT a Baptist. He was a member of the Church of England but in name only. He was a politician who went through the forms but the first time his pastor tried to get him to pray he got up and left the church and never came back.
As for Catholics in America, they were a despised and persecuted minority for most of American history which is why we have only had one Catholic president---JFK.
Our laws are based on ROMAN law, which is the basis of almost all Western law codes except the Code Napoleon. Hint: The Romans were Pagans when they developed their laws. In fact many western legal practices, such as charging interest, are highly anti-Christian which is why for almost two thousand years the Jews were the money lenders of Europe (they did not have the same prohibitions).
As for the US being founded on "Christian" principals you might want to look at the Treaty of Tripoli which was ratified by the US Senate making it the law of the land. Article 11 states:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
And as for the religion of the common people what part of "only about 15% of Americans in the first census called themselves Christians" did you not understand? Did you bother to read the article I linked you to? It really would save a lot of time and help clear up your misconceptions.
The Federal Constitution trumps all others, which is why the US Supreme Court can overturn state laws that violate it. The government is not allowed to take sides in religious disputes (the establishment clause) and printing religious messages on government issued license plates is taking sides.
Do you see any anti-religious license plates being issued? If not then that is religious discrimination, which is unconstitutional. -
The government is not allowed to take sides in religious disputes (the establishment clause) and printing religious messages on government issued license plates is taking sides
sort of like "In God We Trust" huh..
I read most of the article you wrote but it was full of facts and twists on facts as some of the replies there point out. -
In another not while you refer to the beginnings of America I am pointing out a more recent foundation.. maybe foundation isn't the right term but more of a guideline. Why is it that most city and state courthouses have Christian art, sayings, other Christian portrayals that Libs are ever trying to get taken down if Christianity has had no relevance in the situation.
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@ RCB2875
In another not while you refer to the beginnings of America I am pointing out a more recent foundation.. maybe foundation isn't the right term but more of a guideline. Why is it that most city and state courthouses have Christian art, sayings, other Christian portrayals that Libs are ever trying to get taken down if Christianity has had no relevance in the situation.
Most city and state courthouses DO NOT have Christian art, sayings or other Christian portrayals. One of the good things that the ACLU has managed to do is to get that stuff declared illegal and banished.
As for why Liberals try to protect our right to be free of other people's religion it is because you Cons are forever trying to cram it down our throats. It is a fight you Cons will not win--ever. -
@ RCB2875
sort of like "In God We Trust" huh..
I read most of the article you wrote but it was full of facts and twists on facts as some of the replies there point out.
It is ashame that nothing you have written has even one single fact of any sort, even twisted. All you have offered is poorly understood misinformation.
Washington a Baptist? What a load of BS! -
true.. he was a catholic. lol Still Christianity. =)
Most city and state courthouses DO NOT have Christian art, sayings or other Christian portrayals.
And where do you live?
One of the good things that the ACLU has managed to do is to get that stuff declared illegal and banished.
I haven't seen anything that the ACLU has ever done in the American interest.
As for why Liberals try to protect our right to be free of other people's religion it is because you Cons are forever trying to cram it down our throats. It is a fight you Cons will not win--ever.
I am an Independent and fiscal conservative. I am also agnostic. with a leaning to certain christian views. -
@ lensman67
Would you have a problem with plates that featured an anti-Christian slogan? If one group has the right to have pro anything then others have the same right to take the opposite course.
@ RCB2875
I wouldn't have any problems with that at all. It doesn't affect me one way or the other what other people choose to believe or not.
Exactly...thanks, for saying what I was thinking, RCB.
lens...I don't have a problem with anyone putting plates on their vehicles that say whatever they like. Like I said...it's an option...a choice. -
Lens,
If my recollection is correct a couple of months ago you were all lathered up about some parents who objected to what they believed was a a school district promoting homosexual values. The parents were concerned about the type of literature forced onto the students and the fact that the school required the students to sign a nondisclosure form. If I recall correctly you were of the opinion that the students should be exposed to a variety of ideas.
Why have you changed your stance? Why shouldn't the people be able to figure things out for themselves?
Please don't give me that government endorsed religion horseshit. As the article stated any group can apply for a slogan if they pay the up front costs and the cost of the plates.
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@ sumdume
Lens,
If my recollection is correct a couple of months ago you were all lathered up about some parents who objected to what they believed was a a school district promoting homosexual values. The parents were concerned about the type of literature forced onto the students and the fact that the school required the students to sign a nondisclosure form. If I recall correctly you were of the opinion that the students should be exposed to a variety of ideas.
Why have you changed your stance? Why shouldn't the people be able to figure things out for themselves?
Please don't give me that government endorsed religion horseshit. As the article stated any group can apply for a slogan if they pay the up front costs and the cost of the plates.
He has a morbid fascination of bringing down Christianity or anything that isn't of his liking. These type of people have no self control over what they feel. They think that if they see something that everyone is shoving it down their throats. It must be from the constant rumble coming from the black helicopters circling their houses. -
Objections to such words are as inane as objections oriented around other politically incorrect phenomena such as confederate battle flags, hangman's nooses, white bedsheets, swastikas, etc.
Why should anybody object to symbols or symbolic statements?
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I believe... I believe... I believe I'll have another beer
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@ sumdume
I believe... I believe... I believe I'll have another beer
Cabernet works for me! LOL!!!! -
In depth intellectualisms?
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South Carolina's "I Believe" Faith Plate Under Fire From ACLU
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