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1 more article on this subject:
Obama's voting record in the Illinois State Senate is host to a fact little known to the public this Presidential Campaign Season. More over it reveals a disturbing thought process in America.
Live Birth Abortion was a practice in some Hospitals in America, which allows for an infant who survives an abortion procedure to die without medical treatment. In 2001 and 2002 bills were passed by the United States Congress to protect " infants born alive," amongst other patients rights. Thank God for small favors.
The purposes of H.R. 2175, the `Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001' are:
(1) Ìto repudiate the flawed notion that a child's entitlement to the protections of the law is dependent upon whether that child's mother or others want him or her;
(2) Ìto repudiate the flawed notion that the right to an abortion means the right to a dead baby, regardless of where the killing takes place;
(3) Ìto affirm that every child who is born alive--whether as a result of induced abortion, natural labor, or caesarean section--bears an intrinsic dignity as a human being which is not dependent upon the desires, interests, or convenience of any other person, and is entitled to receive the full protections of the law; and
(4) Ìto establish firmly that, for purposes of Federal law, the term `person' includes an infant who is completely expelled or extracted from his or her mother and who is alive, regardless of whether or not the baby's development is believed to be, or is in fact, sufficient to permit long-term survival, and regardless of whether the baby survived an abortion.
Jill Staneck a Registered Nurse spoke out about the procedure at a hospital where she worked.
... In this particular abortion procedure doctors do not attempt to kill the baby in the uterus. The goal is simply to prematurely deliver a baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward.
To commit induced labor abortion, a doctor or resident inserts a medication into the mother’s birth canal close to the cervix. The cervix is the opening at the bottom of the uterus that normally stays closed until a mother is about 40 weeks pregnant and ready to deliver. This medication irritates the cervix and stimulates it to open early. When this occurs, the small second or third trimester pre-term, fully formed baby falls out of the uterus, sometimes alive. By law, if an aborted baby is born alive, both birth and death certificates must be issued. Ironically, at Christ Hospital the cause of death often listed for live aborted babies is "extreme prematurity," an acknowledgement by doctors that they have caused this death.
It is not uncommon for a live aborted baby to linger for an hour or two or even longer. At Christ Hospital one of these babies lived for almost an entire eight-hour shift...
In the event that an aborted baby is born alive, she or he receives "comfort care," defined as keeping the baby warm in a blanket until s/he dies. Parents may hold the baby if they wish. If the parents do not want to hold their dying aborted baby, a staff member cares for the baby until s/he dies. If staff did does not have the time or desire to hold the baby, s/he is taken to Christ Hospital’s new Comfort Room, which is complete with a First Foto machine if parents want professional pictures of their aborted baby, baptismal supplies, gowns, and certificates, foot printing equipment and baby bracelets for mementos, and a rocking chair. Before the Comfort Room was established, babies were taken to the Soiled Utility Room to die.
The problem is that before the unanimous votes to pass these bills the option to go through with this procedure was available and practiced. The bills would put restrictions on the procedure which is a specific type of abortion that fetus sometimes survives. It would also require another doctor to be present to treat the resulting child if the fetus were to survive the abortion. The bills pushed through the Illinois legislature in 2001, Obama voted Present, and in 2002, Obama voted no.
The Bills introduced in Illinois in 2001 were:
Senate Bill 1093 which requires a separate physician, who is not involved in an abortion, to be present in the event that an abortion might result in a live birth, for that doctor to make an independent evaluation of the viability of the infant and to provide medical care if required.
Senate Bill 1094 creates a cause of action in the event an induced labor abortion results in a live birth and the doctor or health care provider harms or neglects the infant or fails to provide proper medical care to the child after its birth.
Senate Bill 1095 defines a "born-alive infant" to include every infant member of the homo sapiens species who is born alive at any stage of his/her development.
Obama was called out for his vote and his response was:
"It would essentially bar abortions because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this was a child then this would be an anti-abortion statute," Obama said in the Senate's debate in March 2001.
During his run for Federal Congress he expressed support for the federal bill which put in protections for abortion rights.
So apparently this was all about the rights of a mother to seek an abortion and he had problems with naming an infant born and completely outside of the mother a child. So because he played semantics in such a manner which is obviously supported by many pro-abortion groups we as Americans needed to waste time and money to redefine what a child is even though it has been established time and time again that a legal child is not a fetus in the womb but an infant who is completely extracted from the mother. We have to further degrade ourselves as human beings and legislate what is common sense, if a person is alive you give them treatment. Under the previous laws the reason live birth abortion was allowed to happen was that the procedure was supposed to result in the death of the baby, and the mother did not want the child. I am sorry but I fail to see how letting a live child die in a hospital without care is different from a mother giving birth then drowning the child in the bath tub because she did not want it.
The fact that abortionists thought that infanticide was a legal right shows to me they are completely off base. Live Birth Abortion was legal infanticide, that is all.
Honestly I don't know what is worse, ripping a child apart, sucking out its brains, or delivering it prematurely and letting it slowly suffocate as it struggles to breathe. As a woman I try to be understanding of those who seek abortion, especially mothers who have children and are in danger of death. Honestly I would rather if they do give birth prematurely, but to then set the baby aside and let it die? At least knowing that it is illegal to allow the baby to go with only comfort care and now must be treated is a blessing. If you think about it, this procedure is less invasive on the mother and the child, no ripping, no tearing, nothing more than a regular birth of a premature child. Now I am wondering why we still rip babies out body part by body part, why we stick scissors in their head and suck out their brains, or why we euthanize them while still in the womb. Why not deliver prematurely and then give custody to the state? It seems more humane, then again the cost of such a policy would be atrocious.
If you think, really think, about Abortions in America you start to wonder how much if it is a designed for population control, class control, and genetic control through inadvertent sterilization.
One must then further consider if it is right to keep alive babies born with defects that are life long debilitating such as Downs Syndrome and Spinabifida? I know rather deep questions, but if we continue in the circular arguments about religion vs. choice the real issues will keep themselves hidden under the voices of people who speak only to hear themselves and have no intention of solving problems. We need to define as a society where we want to go, forward, backward, or to the side.
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A society that teaches it's children that abortion (genecide) is acceptable will be forgotton by / put to death by / not cared for by those same children.
It's noon time here in Atlanta and no one has commentrd on the op-ed until now. No one cares about an issue that has KILLED more people (although they be un-born) than ALL the wars fought by America in it's history.
Re-visit this:
"SLED" Acronym (Regarding Abortion)
It's easy to say that abortion is wrong. It's more challenging to logically explain why. Think about this:
S = Size
A pre-born baby may be smaller than a newborn. But large people are not more human than small people, nor do they deserve more rights.
L = Level of Development
If self-awareness and intelligence define us as human beings, that means those who are more intelligent have the right to exploit those of less intelligence. Obviously, this is not the case.
E = Environment or Location
Changing location does not stop us from being who we are, be it traveling from one city to another, or eight inches down the birth canal.
D = Degree of Dependency
Some people believe that a pre-born baby "becomes" a human being when it is capable of surviving outside of the mother's womb without artificial support. Yet there are people who depend upon insulin, heart pacemakers and diabetes medication, and without them, they will not survive. This does not make them less human than us.
Abortion Stops a Heart Beat, Choice should not Stop Logic. Who speaks for the BABY?
From Scott Klusendorf's "Reaching Hearts on Abortion" broadcast - Focus on the Family, 02/04
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Information on Intact Dilation and Extraction. There is no such thing as a Live Birth Abortion in the medical world. It's a political tool to incite an emotional response. The process was intended to allow mothers of diseased babies who wouldn't otherwise be able to deliver the baby because of an enlarged head to pass the child without harming the mother. The procedure may have been abused and it should be illegal for anything other than it's intended purpose. Only 0.17% of abortions are performed with this technique in the US(2,232 of 1,313,000 in 2000).
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@ Hammster
L = Level of Development
If self-awareness and intelligence define us as human beings, that means those who are more intelligent have the right to exploit those of less intelligence. Obviously, this is not the case.
I have to disagree on this one point. It sounds like a slippery slope argument if I understand it correctly. Either way level of development is extremely important. Otherwise do we attribute rights to sperm and eggs? At what second do rights apply? Self awareness has to be the tipping point.
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There is no such thing as a Live Birth Abortion in the medical world. It's a political tool to incite an emotional response.
Okay so you want to get into semantics.
Just because there is a laymans term for something in the medial world doesn't mean there is no such thing.
If a woman is induced into labor ( not just dialtion there are contractions as well in some cases) and a fetus is extracted and happens to live after which it is allowed to die then it is called in the laymans world a Live ( baby is alive), Birth ( baby is born), Abortion ( Baby is intended to die).
Get where I am going with this.
Downs syndrome, spinabifida and other birth defects have been cited as reasons for this type of abortion procedure.
The self awareness argument is null because one could argue that you are not self aware for any number of reasons. Level of Development is supposed to determine the viability of the fetus or the chance of survival if born prematurely. A baby born at 10 weeks will not survive, however at 22-24 weeks it has been a miracle but it is getting more common that babies live. Advances in medical technology are amazing.
Atro did you read the article or skim it ( not being bitchy I skim sometimes ) ? What do you feel about the last three paragraphs? The procedure itself doesn't seem that horrible ( inducing labor) but to not restrict the abuse of a born child afterwards seems to be the major problem people were having with this procedure before congress voted to give rights to all homo sapiens alive outside of the womb.
Do you think that perhaps this is a less invasive procedure than say, what we laymen call Partial Birth Abortion, whether they suck out the brains or rip the baby apart? I mean aside from how horrid it is for the baby it can also be damaging to the mother.
Of course my personal feelings on this is well known. I am not all that thrilled with any abortion but I can attempt to be understanding. I think though the best course of action is not getting pregnant in the first place and as a society it is our duty to help prevent unwanted pregnancies before they take.
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@ Samantha A. Torrence
Okay so you want to get into semantics.
Just because there is a laymans term for something in the medial world doesn't mean there is no such thing.
If a woman is induced into labor ( not just dialtion there are contractions as well in some cases) and a fetus is extracted and happens to live after which it is allowed to die then it is called in the laymans world a Live ( baby is alive), Birth ( baby is born), Abortion ( Baby is intended to die).
Get where I am going with this.
Downs syndrome, spinabifida and other birth defects have been cited as reasons for this type of abortion procedure.
The self awareness argument is null because one could argue that you are not self aware for any number of reasons. Level of Development is supposed to determine the viability of the fetus or the chance of survival if born prematurely. A baby born at 10 weeks will not survive, however at 22-24 weeks it has been a miracle but it is getting more common that babies live. Advances in medical technology are amazing.
Atro did you read the article or skim it ( not being bitchy I skim sometimes ) ? What do you feel about the last three paragraphs? The procedure itself doesn't seem that horrible ( inducing labor) but to not restrict the abuse of a born child afterwards seems to be the major problem people were having with this procedure before congress voted to give rights to all homo sapiens alive outside of the womb.
Do you think that perhaps this is a less invasive procedure than say, what we laymen call Partial Birth Abortion, whether they suck out the brains or rip the baby apart? I mean aside from how horrid it is for the baby it can also be damaging to the mother.
Of course my personal feelings on this is well known. I am not all that thrilled with any abortion but I can attempt to be understanding. I think though the best course of action is not getting pregnant in the first place and as a society it is our duty to help prevent unwanted pregnancies before they take.
I confused Partial Birth Abortion with Live Birth Abortion. Not trying to get into semantics, just pointing something out that most people don't know. I don't like abortion either but the right to an abortion is important because it's better than back room abortions. We should definitely advise people to have the child and give it up for adoption. I just feel that the abortion should be illegal once the child has a brain.
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I have a difficult time processing so much information (its my meds and time of day vs your intellect...lol) but I will say:
Palliative care for aborted fetuses is a very very very edgy subject.
Many premies survive and some states might allow an abortion at a week of pregnancy that others might not deem appropriate but as necessity.
Allow that as a premie to slip away comfortably and you end up with a living child and a parent who is guilted int a situation they dony want.
A person who chooses abortion, well, it is their choice. Me-no way.
Them, they have the right to terminate and expect their child, as horrible as it is, will be 100% dead and that means ripped I guess. I don't know.
I would rather see kind and peace but the possibility of life (survival) exists and w/ that negates the abortion.
good article.
It makes me sad because I just cannot fathom someone choosing to kill their own baby. There are too many who want a baby(i am a surrogate to one family and know their pain 1st hand).
I also agree w/ atrox about the backroom abortions.
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Just read this from Peter Singer!
Singer holds that the right to life is grounded in a being's personhood; that is, in the sense of a being's rationality and self-consciousness. In his view, the central argument against abortion is equivalent to the following logical syllogism:
It is wrong to kill an innocent human being.
A human fetus is an innocent human being.
Therefore it is wrong to kill a human fetus.
His argument against this is to say that, while a fetus is a member of the human species, it is not a person, which he defines as a self-conscious being that sees itself over time. He sees species membership as morally irrelevant, but personhood as relevant.
Singer lecturing on medical ethics.Similar to his argument for abortion, Singer argues that infants similarly lack essential characteristics of personhood - "rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness" and therefore "simply killing an infant is never equivalent to killing a person.".
Singer classifies euthanasia as voluntary, involuntary, or non-voluntary. Voluntary euthanasia is that with the consent of the subject.
Singer's book 'Rethinking Life and Death: The collapse of our Traditional Ethics' offers further examination of the ethical dilemmas concerning the advances of medicine. He covers the value of human life and quality of life ethics in addition to abortion and other controversial ethical dilemmas.
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Yeah he is a sick sick man.
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Ok .. Why the LOUD Silence from MSM, MSNBC, CNN and the Trolling Pundits???
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Somehow I missed this Sam.
But you said it all here, I am sorry but I fail to see how letting a live child die in a hospital without care is different from a mother giving birth then drowning the child in the bath tub because she did not want it.
Great, no, a fantastic OP/ED.
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AWESOME Op-Ed Sam and thanks. I had forgotten where I saw this when I was writing. As usual you state things perfectly!
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It does not make any difference what Obama thinks,It is what God thinks that matters..He would like it if everyone was perfect, he knew we would not be, that is why Jesus died on the cross,so we could hear his voice in our time of temptations..WE can not make the Gov. accountable for moral issues!
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@ sher mckay
It does not make any difference what Obama thinks,It is what God thinks that matters..He would like it if everyone was perfect, he knew we would not be, that is why Jesus died on the cross,so we could hear his voice in our time of temptations..WE can not make the Gov. accountable for moral issues!
Huh?
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HUH?
WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ELABORATE?
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@ sher mckay
HUH?
WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ELABORATE?
Not really.
I just saw your comment on another thread. It looks like you are going around with some questionable comparisons to make your point.
Since you seem to be so into what God has to say maybe you should explore what He has to say about unborn children.
I get the impression that you seem to think it is OK to sin because what the heck God will forgive you anyway.
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My point is really simple..God does not make me choose ,he gives me the freedom to make my own choices..and no I do not believe it is OK to sin thinking God will just forgive me..I am saying Moral decisions such as abortion should be between the woman and God..I love children, I have 3 of my own and 8 grand kids..These decisions should not be left up to the Government..Women are going to have abortions no matter what the laws are,and the pictures of fetuses may change the minds of some, but ultimately the woman will make a moral decision and she will have to live with the results , good or bad..God doe not make us choose, why should the Government?
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Did you even read the article or did you see the word Abortion and think this was another soap box to take advantage of? Please read the article. It is only polite.
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Furthermore, the government cannot tell you want you can or cannot do, just what you will get punished for if you do it. And yes we can hold the government accountable for making laws that either promote or hurt society.
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Sam, Sher nailed my article too, funny that people seem to believe that educating people on where Obama stands on the issues that concern Americans, is an attempt to destroy him, instead of acknowledging that his own positions when made public are not exactly well received....that should tell them something but it seems to fly right over their heads.
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Well I am just surprised by the comment because the article talks about basically killing a child who is born alive, completely out of the mother, by denying it treatment just because you don't want it. I really don't think she read the article.
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@ sher mckay
My point is really simple..God does not make me choose ,he gives me the freedom to make my own choices..and no I do not believe it is OK to sin thinking God will just forgive me..I am saying Moral decisions such as abortion should be between the woman and God..I love children, I have 3 of my own and 8 grand kids..These decisions should not be left up to the Government..Women are going to have abortions no matter what the laws are,and the pictures of fetuses may change the minds of some, but ultimately the woman will make a moral decision and she will have to live with the results , good or bad..God doe not make us choose, why should the Government?
Why then does the government choose to prosecute a woman if she throws her baby in the garbage right after the child is born?
Are only baby killers who are paid to kill a baby the ones who can and do get away with murder?
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Why then does the government choose to prosecute a woman if she throws her baby in the garbage right after the child is born?
Are only baby killers who are paid to kill a baby the ones who can and do get away with murder?
Is that what " CHANGE" is meant by the ones prclaimimg that they are the PROGRESSIVE ONES?? Legalized Murder of unborn Human Beings??? Is this athrow back to Nazi Thinking towards Human Beings???
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@ redhawk
Is that what " CHANGE" is meant by the ones prclaimimg that they are the PROGRESSIVE ONES?? Legalized Murder of unborn Human Beings??? Is this athrow back to Nazi Thinking towards Human Beings???
The way you put it redhawk, I think I will agree with you.
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
The way you put it redhawk, I think I will agree with you.
WELL... they way they want to treat HUMAN LIFE... what other conclusions can be drawn??? What's next??
You Disagree with tyhem and.....????....???
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