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 GM and Saab use human cadavers in auto crash tests
In a joint research project in Sweden, General Motors and Saab used dead human bodies in automobile crash tests last year.
General Motors is the parent company of Swedish car manufacturer Saab. GM and Saab finished a multi-year project recently where a Swedish news outlet says they used dead human bodies for automobile crash tests, according to Claes Tingvall, a car safety specialist with the Swedish Road Administration (Vägverket).
He told Expressen, a Swedish newspaper:
For certain things, it’s important to use cadavers. [The tests] involved people who had donated their own bodies.
He said both used bodies for experimental purposes to design better crash test dummies and also to investigate the injuries sustained by human bodies in auto accidents.
Tingvall said ten dead human bodies were used in the joint research project and Saab cars were tested.
GM and Saab were contacted about this story, neither responded about the use of dead human bodies. However Saab spokesperson Christer Nilsson told Expressen about working with GM:
We are with GM through thick and thin. We conduct our own research and try to find other methods to achieve our results, with the help of computers, for example.
In my opinion, they should have used dummies instead of cadavers, which I think is an act of desecration. I doubt anyone would volunteer to donate their bodies for such a cause.
Do you agree with GM/Saab’s use of dead human bodies for auto crash tests?
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No I do not agree with them using dead bodies for their experiments.
There are many other ways to test then using dead bodies.
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
No I do not agree with them using dead bodies for their experiments.
There are many other ways to test then using dead bodies. This has been done since decades. And yes, there are other ways. However, they are all vastly inferior. This is research of fundamental importance. Furthermore, the dead don't know it anyway. They are dead. What more can happen to them? -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
This has been done since decades. And yes, there are other ways. However, they are all vastly inferior. This is research of fundamental importance. Furthermore, the dead don't know it anyway. They are dead. What more can happen to them?
Yes but where do the bodies come from?
Are they homeless people, people with no relatives, people that agreed to allow their bodies to be used for experiments?
If the people agreed to be used then I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with it. But then again----? -
If they are homeless with no relatives and no one has claimed their bodies, then what does the state do with them?
Use taxpayer dollars to put them in the ground? Burn them? Buy them a casket and flowers and tombstone?
A good use, in my opinion. Caveat - what if family has been searching for their loved ones and 2 years have past only to find that GM used their daughter's body in a crash test because she suffered from schizophrenia and had gone missing and homeless and died.....??????
I'd be a tad upset.
Food for thought.
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Yes but where do the bodies come from?
Are they homeless people, people with no relatives, people that agreed to allow their bodies to be used for experiments?
If the people agreed to be used then I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with it. But then again----? As the article stated:
[The tests] involved people who had donated their own bodies,”
It is very hard otherwise to get some cadavers. I tried when I was in med school. It didn't work, in spite of all my efforts, and in spite of the fact that we could by skeletons. To me, that made no sense. If one can buy the finished product, one should be able to buy the raw material. Alas, to no avail. That's a problem in many med schools, by the way: there aren't enough cadavers available to learn proper disection techniques. And that, in turn, leads to poor skills and bad doctors. -
@ Nikki W (karateblossom)
If they are homeless with no relatives and no one has claimed their bodies, then what does the state do with them?
Use taxpayer dollars to put them in the ground? Burn them? Buy them a casket and flowers and tombstone?
A good use, in my opinion. Caveat - what if family has been searching for their loved ones and 2 years have past only to find that GM used their daughter's body in a crash test because she suffered from schizophrenia and had gone missing and homeless and died.....??????
I'd be a tad upset.
Food for thought. They are usually buried in a pauper's grave, with a short religious service, i.e. a prayer by a priest/reverend. The city pays for it, traditionally. However, the burial normally only happens after extensive research to find some family. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
As the article stated:
[The tests] involved people who had donated their own bodies,”
quote]
Whoops guess that somehow didn't register in ye old brain.:-)
That does make a big difference. -
I don't know if they specifically donated for auto crashes. But I know some volunteer their bodies for medical research purposes. The dummies have advanced so much, they have so many pressure sensors all over it and can read data from it instead of using cadavers.
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@ Chris V. (cgull)
I don't know if they specifically donated for auto crashes. But I know some volunteer their bodies for medical research purposes. The dummies have advanced so much, they have so many pressure sensors all over it and can read data from it instead of using cadavers. When one donates her/his body for medical research, one accepts that anything can be done with it. Make no mistake, it is always very useful research for cadavers are very expensive research material, this is not something one squanders on futilities. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
When one donates her/his body for medical research, one accepts that anything can be done with it. Make no mistake, it is always very useful research for cadavers are very expensive research material, this is not something one squanders on futilities. Hope they find a middle ground, maybe build a better dummy for research. -
@ Chris V. (cgull)
Hope they find a middle ground, maybe build a better dummy for research. That's what the article said:
He said both used bodies for experimental purposes to design better crash test dummies and also to investigate the injuries sustained by human bodies in auto accidents.
The trouble is that dummies are not real. If one wants to create reliable products, one needs to use reliable test material. One cannot demand reliable products and then demand that the tests only use unreliable material. This is hard science, not some type of philosophical exercise. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
That's what the article said:
The trouble is that dummies are not real. If one wants to create reliable products, one needs to use reliable test material. One cannot demand reliable products and then demand that the tests only use unreliable material. This is hard science, not some type of philosophical exercise. Yes, we will see what they do next. -
I think we are just getting grossed out by the thought of dead bodies.
Using cadavers as crash test dummies isn't the only gross or bizarre thing happening to dead people. You know about that artist who plasticizes and then slices and sections human cadavers and makes them into art pieces? All of his subjects are volunteers too. His show came to the local museum of science and industry, and I didn't go because I already have enough nightmares in my head, thank you anyway.
Nevertheless, if the cadavers volunteered for such use -- crash test dummy -- before they died and became cadavers, then I don't have a problem with the auto companies using them for crash testing. (Just as long as I don't have to be involved or watch it.) If such use of cadavers keeps some more healthy living people from getting turned into cadavers, then good.
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@ Orange
I think we are just getting grossed out by the thought of dead bodies.
Using cadavers as crash test dummies isn't the only gross or bizarre thing happening to dead people.
Nevertheless, if the cadavers volunteered for such use -- crash test dummy -- before they died and became cadavers, then I don't have a problem with the auto companies using them for crash testing. (Just as long as I don't have to be involved or watch it.) In principle, no cadavers volunteer as crash test dummy. They volunteer as subjects for scientific research, of which crash tests are a valid part.
@ OrangeYou know about that artist who plasticizes and then slices and sections human cadavers and makes them into art pieces? All of his subjects are volunteers too. His show came to the local museum of science and industry, and I didn't go because I already have enough nightmares in my head, thank you anyway. I wouldn't call them art pieces. I would call them artistically presented educational material. The sad reality is that very few people actually know anything about their anatomy. Anatomy isn't gross, it's just misunderstood. I find it funny that many religious people claim that God created us as marvellous, wondrous and perfect beings, while at the same time being grossed out by this supposedly perfect anatomy.
What Gunther von Hagens does is remarkable. I did the same thing when I was in university, but with paraffin, not plastic (it existed, but it was completely unaffordable for someone who had to pay the bills by washing dishes in a restaurant). I do resent the fact that Von Hagens is considered the "inventor" of the procedure. He most definitely is not. Nevertheless, his work is very very good.
@ OrangeIf such use of cadavers keeps some more healthy living people from getting turned into cadavers, then good. Actually, it is always good. Dead is dead. What was once a body, is now a rotting piece of junk.This is the circle of life. The "pure water" we drink contains an innumerable amount of molecules that were once part of the anatomy of some now rotten and recycled corpse. -
I think we pretty much agree. There is just an emotional attitude difference.
Anatomy isn't gross, it's just misunderstood.
I don't think of anatomy as gross. If you ever get a chance to look inside a living body, it's beautiful. All of the pink tissue and pulsating tiny blood vessels in a network. Really neat, vibrantly alive. Dead bodies, on the other hand, look... well... Dead.
What was once a body, is now a rotting piece of junk.
Indeed. And that's why my guts tell me to stay away. I think it's probably just ancient genetic programming about avoiding diseases. I used to be very clinical and unemotional about these things, but now I find that my gut reaction is to just avoid the dead bodies and go hang out with the living people. -
@ Orange
Indeed. And that's why my guts tell me to stay away. I think it's probably just ancient genetic programming about avoiding diseases. I used to be very clinical and unemotional about these things, but now I find that my gut reaction is to just avoid the dead bodies and go hang out with the living people. That is indeed a popular hypothesis. We see dead animals as carrion. A dead human is carrion as well. Add a Comment
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