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An Indian man got very upset after he saw a low class girl walking through a path reserved for upper-class villagers. He threw her into the burning embers.
India has many classes of people, though government laws prohibit class-based discrimination. Dalits or “untouchables” are considered low class-people and are often subject to discrimination. This prejudice exists mostly in rural areas.
The 6-year-old girl in this story was walking with her mother in the city of Mathura when she chose to walk through a path reserved for upper-class villagers.
An upper-class man in his late teens saw the girl and got angry. He scolded them both and pushed the girl into a pile of burning embers by the side of the road according to the police. The girl was still in critical condition Wednesday.
The man confessed to the crime and was charged with attempted murder according to Chaturvedi, a police superintendent.
The state in which this incident took place is governed by a Dalit woman, Mayawati, who is trying to improve conditions of Dalits.
Hindus believe there are five main groups of people, four of which came from the body of the first man. As CNN reports:
The Brahmin class comes from the mouth. They are the priests and holy men, the most elevated of the castes.
Next is the Ksatriyas, the kings, warriors and soldiers created from the arms.
The Vaisyas come from the thighs. They are the merchants and traders of society.
And the Sudras, or laborers, come from the feet.
The last group is the Dalits, or the "untouchables." They're considered too impure to have come from the primordial being. Untouchables are often forced to work in menial jobs. They drink from separate wells. They use different entry ways, coming and going from buildings.
The US-based Dalit Freedom Network (DFN) fighting for the rights of Dalits say there are about 250 million Dalits, or 25 per cent of the population.
The DFN says on their website:
"Dalits are seen to pollute higher caste people if they come in touch with them, hence the 'untouchables…If a higher caste Hindu is touched by, or even had a Dalit's shadow fall across them, they consider themselves to be polluted and have to go through a rigorous series of rituals to be cleansed."
I hope the Indian government takes serious actions against such acts. This class system is another form of racism and I think it's a disgrace to humanity.
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You can watch the untouchable kids video here, show some of the plights the Dalits go through. -
Witness the power of belief.
Siddharta (the Buddha) arose from the Brahmin class to show the mindlessness of this system.
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What a horrible heartless act on the child.
I also hope the government takes serious actions against this man and others like him.
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Sounds all too familiar. IMO people like that don't deserve to live - if one can do that to a child, you're a worthless peace of crap.
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They also believe in KARMA.....so mr entitled teen will have to deal w/ his, I'm sure
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This is not acceptable. Very sad.
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It is not a form of racism, but a form of discrimination.
I agree, this should be dealt with. Harshly.
If someone chooses to believe in religious fallacies, that is her/his right. However, this right should never include harming other people.
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It's very heart-breaking to watch the video because this is something that the kids do understand and I am sure are hurt by. It's wrong, morally and socially.
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@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
It is not a form of racism, but a form of discrimination.
I agree, this should be dealt with. Harshly.
If someone chooses to believe in religious fallacies, that is her/his right. However, this right should never include harming other people.
I couldn't agree more with the whole post Bart. -
The caste system which was officialy done away with in the Indian Constitution, is still very much alive.
Also, in India, girl babies are the target of more abortions than male babies. another disgusting practise which is only now being faced by the Prime Minister of India. -
@ Brant David McLaughlin
Witness the power of belief.
Siddharta (the Buddha) arose from the Brahmin class to show the mindlessness of this system.
B.R. Ambedkar, the man who wrote our constitution was a 'dalit'. The class barriers were even worse at that time, but he fought it for himself and others and was victorious. -
Just like American racism against blacks, class distinction is still prevalent in India. Buried under layers of modernity and progress, sometimes it rears its ugly head. The Indian constitution just like the American one, give equal rights to everyone, but it's just that some practice it less than others.
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I hope the Indian government takes serious actions against such acts. This class system is another form of racism and I think it's a disgrace to humanity.
This caste system is based on the colour of the skin. The darker the skin the lower down the caste totem pole. There is a different between the caste system and a class system which is based on wealth. The caste system is organized (systematic) racism. Good to see something was done about this incident with this little girl. Good report C. -
Yes, thanks, cgull. If she is still critical, i can only imagine the scarring if she survives, both the physical and the psychological.
Sorry Karate, believing in Karma doesn't make it so. Only if Karma is true does your prediction of punitive justice also come true. Big if. To me, the Karma system is just a control ploy to try to make people behave better.
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The article and comments hide the most significant reality; which is that Hinduism spread across eastern Asia, and the Hinduism of Bali today accurately reflects real Hinduism, as it was 700 years ago.
In Bali, you can be a Brahmin street sweeper, or a bottom caste person can be a temple priest. Occupation and social standing do not come into it.
India today is the product of cultural decay that commenced (perhaps) two hundred years before the British arrived; but the British Raj forced the abandonment of indigenous crops, which were forcibly converted to cotton to feed the rapacious Manchester mills. This and other changes destroyed social structure and values, and the imposed monoculture and forest removal introduced soil depletion, famine and genocide. These were not traditional.
Imperial Britain forced its own rigid (and existing) class system on India and is primarily responsible for the corruption we see there today.
But these are the historical causes of the corrupted class system, and do not excuse in any way the ruthless classism and xenophobia created by modern Hindu fundamentalists; typified by Vashpayi and megalomaniac and Zionist collaborator Manmohan Singh.
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If the person wanted to kill the child then there a million ways of doing so and the writer has written with his angle of criticism and bigoted view of attacking hinduism .....The writer seems to be one from evangelism point of view for the consumption of western audiences . These people write under various groups and extract money in name of religios evangelism .... i.e. they live and propogate negative news of indian's and hinduism to put the supper on their table ....
Untouchability is also practiced widely outside India under various names (segregation in the US, apartheid in South Africa). Egalitarianism is a modern concept. Enslavement of one ethnic group by another is still practised in Sudan and Mauritania.
: Where have Eastern Christians (as distinct from Western Christians)
: never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Palestine B) Egypt C) Yemen D) Arabia E) Selucia/Ctesiphon
: F) Chaldea G) Syria H) Persia I) Turkey J) India
: Where have Jews never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Europe B) North Africa C) Turkey D) Russia E) Arabia F) India
: Where have Zorastrians never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Iran B) Afghanistan C) India
: Which state redistributed lands possessed by the majority to
: Sikh refugees ?
: A) West Punjab B) POK C) Kashmir D) East Punjab
: In recent years, where have Bahais built a gigantic lotus shaped temple on a 10 hectare lot and were allowed to spread their faith ?
: A) Riyadh B) Tehran C) Kabul D) Islamabad E) Delhi
: Where did the Dalai Lama and his followers find refuge ?
: A) Bhutan B) Sikkim C) Nepal D) Burma E) Thailand F) Pakistan G) Bangladesh H) Russia I) India
KINDLY ANSWER THE ABOE QUESTIONS AND ....TELL ME IF THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS IS A BIGOT WITH A EVANGELISM AGENDA ......OR NOT ...???????
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If the person wanted to kill the child then there a million ways of doing so and the writer has written with his angle of criticism and bigoted view of attacking hinduism .....The writer seems to be one from evangelism point of view for the consumption of western audiences . These people write under various groups and extract money in name of religios evangelism .... i.e. they live and propogate negative news of indian's and hinduism to put the supper on their table ....
Untouchability is also practiced widely outside India under various names (segregation in the US, apartheid in South Africa). Egalitarianism is a modern concept. Enslavement of one ethnic group by another is still practised in Sudan and Mauritania.
: Where have Eastern Christians (as distinct from Western Christians)
: never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Palestine B) Egypt C) Yemen D) Arabia E) Selucia/Ctesiphon
: F) Chaldea G) Syria H) Persia I) Turkey J) India
: Where have Jews never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Europe B) North Africa C) Turkey D) Russia E) Arabia F) India
: Where have Zorastrians never been persecuted by the majority ?
: A) Iran B) Afghanistan C) India
: Which state redistributed lands possessed by the majority to
: Sikh refugees ?
: A) West Punjab B) POK C) Kashmir D) East Punjab
: In recent years, where have Bahais built a gigantic lotus shaped temple on a 10 hectare lot and were allowed to spread their faith ?
: A) Riyadh B) Tehran C) Kabul D) Islamabad E) Delhi
: Where did the Dalai Lama and his followers find refuge ?
: A) Bhutan B) Sikkim C) Nepal D) Burma E) Thailand F) Pakistan
G) Bangladesh H) Russia I) India
KINDLY ANSWER THE ABOE QUESTIONS AND ....TELL ME IF THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS IS A BIGOT WITH A EVANGELISM AGENDA ......OR NOT ...???????
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Ravim Pillay, I didn't write this with an Evangelism point of view or to please the western audience, I wrote this for the poor girl, who deserve a better life than being treated like this. If given an equal opportunity, she maybe another Sakuntala or Indira Gandhi. It happens in every religion but that doesn't mean it is acceptable. I didn't blame the entire Hindus only those who have no clue in what they do like this. Thank you for your time. If supporting a poor girl is bigotry, then I will take that.
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@ Chris V. (cgull)
Ravim Pillay, I didn't write this with an Evangelism point of view or to please the western audience, I wrote this for the poor girl, who deserve a better life than being treated like this. If given an equal opportunity, she maybe another Sakuntala or Indira Gandhi. It happens in every religion but that doesn't mean it is acceptable. I didn't blame the entire Hindus only those who have no clue in what they do like this. Thank you for your time. If supporting a poor girl is bigotry, then I will take that. That is the problem with religion, Cgull. Those who live inside the protected "bubble" of a religion are so deluded that they do not see what everyone outside the bubble sees all too clearly. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
That is the problem with religion, Cgull. Those who live inside the protected "bubble" of a religion are so deluded that they do not see what everyone outside the bubble sees all too clearly. I agree, the truth is so clear, I don't know how any one can justify hurting this girl, it is wrong in any religion. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
That is the problem with religion, Cgull. Those who live inside the protected "bubble" of a religion are so deluded that they do not see what everyone outside the bubble sees all too clearly.
first of al tell me you are not christian cgull........
Yes thats right .......
we should always consider the GOAN INQUISITION ...... christians went with swords and guns chasing the local population with intent to kill or convert ... for those who are out to criticise do not have the decency to see it as a seperate isolated case than one that is the norm of the day ...
...............even today because the indian media is biased many stories of the christian carrying forced conversion in the north east of india is not reported because ........the minority votes count ....
wait the day for the tide is turning ..... -
@ Chris V. (cgull)
I agree, the truth is so clear, I don't know how any one can justify hurting this girl, it is wrong in any religion. Unfortunately, most religions do accept and even encourage discrimination, torture and killing. To a Christian, this girl had to suffer because of a preposterous Hindu superstition. To a Pastafarian, homosexuals have to suffer horribly in the US, because of a prepostorous Christian superstition. They are both right. The Hindus aren't any worse than the Christians, they are both following ridiculous superstitions. -
@ ravimpillay
first of al tell me you are not christian cgull........
Yes thats right .......
we should always consider the GOAN INQUISITION ...... christians went with swords and guns chasing the local population with intent to kill or convert ... for those who are out to criticise do not have the decency to see it as a seperate isolated case than one that is the norm of the day ...
...............even today because the indian media is biased many stories of the christian carrying forced conversion in the north east of india is not reported because ........the minority votes count ....
wait the day for the tide is turning ..... Nobody is supporting the what they did in Goa either. Again we are not blaming the whole religion, only those who break the rules. -
@ ravimpillaywe should always consider the GOAN INQUISITION ...... christians went with swords and guns chasing the local population with intent to kill or convert ... for those who are out to criticise do not have the decency to see it as a seperate isolated case than one that is the norm of the day ... That is how Europe was converted to Christianity. They had the choice: be burned at the stake, or becoming a Christian. For some reason, most have become Christians. I can't fathom why, probably because it is such a peaceful religion ^_^. -
@ Chris V. (cgull)
Nobody is supporting the what they did in Goa either. Again we are not blaming the whole religion, only those who break the rules. But that's precisely the problem, Cgull. Christians who kill non-believers are only breaking the rules of non-Christians, not their own. Hindus killing lower-caste members are only breaking the rules of non-Hindus, not their own. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
But that's precisely the problem, Cgull. Christians who kill non-believers are only breaking the rules of non-Christians, not their own. Hindus killing lower-caste members are only breaking the rules of non-Hindus, not their own. Unless everyone treats everyone else equal, we will see more of the problems. Even if someone doesn't follow the religion, at least we should respect them. That is what every book teaches. If not, they better be ready after life, they have a lot of explaining to do. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
But that's precisely the problem, Cgull. Christians who kill non-believers are only breaking the rules of non-Christians, not their own. Hindus killing lower-caste members are only breaking the rules of non-Hindus, not their own.
NO NO NO , it is an isolated incident ..... for your info you should always go to :
http://www.crusadewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=932&Itemid=38
where because of the church many thought better to be a hindu than a christian....
The most of the idiots who write this non-sense are related to organisations who do the business of evangelism and they afterwards it becomes a good point when the hat is passed around for indian christianity depends on the money from outside and the high convertability of $ to Rs. i.e. 1$ = R. 40/- and so it is an easy way to extract money .....
a country 1.2 billion population and one atrocity is the yardstick to measure discrimination......... maybe the white manshould always check wether this is the case in western world with blacks and latinos .... -
Notice how Vashpayi... oops, I mean Ravimpillay, does not respond to specifics, only counters with the horrors of Christianity; which, it seems, none of us are, nor defend.
And the attack on the little girl an isolated case? How about the hundreds of Muslim women and children raped, tortured and killed in far west India just a few years ago. I watched the interviews with Hindu leaders who justified this because they want India to be exclusively Hindu.
As I recall, more than one and a half thousand innocent Muslims perished. I guess I am not the only person here who sees religion as the favoured vehicle for oppression, torture and genocide.
Reading Ravimpillay's views, I can appreciate how easily it happens.
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Indeed, Tony. And let's also not forget that -with the exception of the American Taliban- Christianity is essentially non-violent now. Not thanks to some holy principles, but thanks to a legislator who no longer accepts their kind of violence. Christianity has simply adapted, because the only other two choices were to fight, and most probably lose, or to disappear. Since religion is based on (a) non-existent entities/entity in the first place, they have simply chosen to be pragmatic. God is not going to object anyway.
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Well said, Bart. American Taliban, eh? I like it. May I borrow that from time to time?
Another thought; I suspect that religion has immediate appeal to one-eyed people and control freaks (compulsive repressives). Sadly, with the genesis of both being fear and ignorance, and these being actively generated in the US, there's more of this to come.
I feel truly sorry for thoughtful and well-read Americans. Life must get quite depressing at times.
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@ Tony Ryan
Well said, Bart. American Taliban, eh? I like it. May I borrow that from time to time?
Another thought; I suspect that religion has immediate appeal to one-eyed people and control freaks (compulsive repressives). Sadly, with the genesis of both being fear and ignorance, and these being actively generated in the US, there's more of this to come.
I feel truly sorry for thoughtful and well-read Americans. Life must get quite depressing at times. Thanks, Tony. Go right ahead. I don’t claim authorship for this, it is used all over the Internet. For good reason.
You are right, life does get quite depressing for the more intellectual type of American. It is so bad, that many publicly claim to believe in a God, they privately think is rubbish. They even have self-help groups where they try to support each other. All that, in “the land of the free”. It is tragic. -
My my what a shame that the poor "intellectual type of American" has to have "self-help groups where they try to support each other."
It doesn't speak too well of their intellect if they can't handle the people who believe in God.
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
My my what a shame that the poor "intellectual type of American" has to have "self-help groups where they try to support each other."
It doesn't speak too well of their intellect if they can't handle the people who believe in God. Indeed. How does your intellect protect your children from being pestered at school because their parents are atheists, I wonder?
And how do you protect yourself against being killed by fanatics because you happen to be a doctor who performs abortions? By not helping your patients, maybe? -
If I may comment with supreme irony, considering the source of the quote, you are casting pearls before swine, Bart. Religious people; especially Christians and Muslims, impose their beliefs on all other human beings. In their delusional minds, they are right and you are wrong and must be converted or punished.
This is what justifies evangelism; including the imposition of their crazy beliefs on your children. Currently, Christians are lobbying governments hard to make Christianity compulsory, and nowhere is this more prevalent than in the US. Yet they have the blind audacity to use the term Islamofascism.
In my view, schools should be secular, and parents should be allowed to raise their children with the culture and religion of their choice; providing, of course, that these practices are not regarded by the mainstream community (ie electoral consensus) as harmful to the children or to that community. That is democracy..
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@ Tony RyanIf I may comment with supreme irony, considering the source of the quote, you are casting pearls before swine, Bart. Religious people; especially Christians and Muslims, impose their beliefs on all other human beings. In their delusional minds, they are right and you are wrong and must be converted or punished.
This is what justifies evangelism; including the imposition of their crazy beliefs on your children. Currently, Christians are lobbying governments hard to make Christianity compulsory, and nowhere is this more prevalent than in the US. Yet they have the blind audacity to use the term Islamofascism.
I agree, Tony. My problem, and I am “guessing” that I am not alone, is that these people are hurting themselves, and the world around them, competing for the favour of a non-existent entity that, according to their own holy book, essentially could hardly care less about them.
Even imagining the extreme improbability of the fact that the American evangelicals are the ones who are indeed fearing (the fear is a Biblical requirement, there isn’t much love here) the right God, the possibility that they are doing the right thing is still virtually impossible for the Bible contains too many contradictions, they simply don’t know what they have to do.
But then, even imagining that they actually succeed into taking those hurdles by some extremely unlikely chance, there is a final hurdle that they cannot avoid. Again, according to their very own holy book: the selection process. According to the Bible, only 144,000 will be “saved”. The American Taliban has about 70 million members. That means that, after having lived a life in fear, having tried to guess whatever their horrible Master wants from them, having tried to do their very best to follow its contradictory rules, having been perfect in every possible way, they end up with a chance to balk at, namely a probability of about 0.002057 that they will actually be chosen. For every one of them that will be “saved” 485 will burn in hell for all eternity, together with the rest of us utterly worthlessnesses. And that’s not even taking into account that currently dead evangelicals will compete for space as well.
And that is in the most optimistic scenario possible, assuming that there is a God (a near impossibility), that it is their God (a chance smaller than 1 in a few hundred million), and that they are actually following the right teaching of that God (a chance smaller than 1 in a few hundred).
And for that ruthless creature, they are prepared to waste their own lives and that of their children, and to destroy the lives of the rest of the 6.5 billion people currently living on this planet.
It is all so deeply saddening.
Most educators have given up. Is that fair? Is it not the task of an educator to do the next-to-impossible to educate even the most hard-headed, the most ignorant and the least capable? Is that not the original meaning of “no child left behind”?
@ Tony RyanIn my view, schools should be secular, and parents should be allowed to raise their children with the culture and religion of their choice; providing, of course, that these practices are not regarded by the mainstream community (ie electoral consensus) as harmful to the children or to that community. That is democracy.. I agree, schools must be secular. No religious indoctrination in schools. That does not mean, that children should not learn about religion, by the way. In our Western countries, the Bible is too important for our culture, it cannot and should not be ignored in our current state of development. Just as we teach them about, say, Aesop’s tales or Shakespeare in school, we should teach them about the Bible. But also just as we do not teach them that Aesop’s tales or Shakespeare’s tales are true, we should not teach them that with respect to the Bible. Fiction is fiction.
As for parents teaching religion to their children, that should be acceptable as a transitional measure. Far too many parents, are still convinced that the fallacies they believe in are indeed true. We cannot and should not take away their rights from them. What we must do, is educate the current children so that it will become a non-issue in the future. After all, no parent today teaches her or his children that it is OK to gangbang another child, that it is adviseable to steal or to rob banks. No parent encourages her or his children to eat poop, to cross the street without looking for cars or to get drunk. It should therefore also be inherently unacceptable to teach children to believe in demonstrable falsehoods.
I would like to add that there must be some weighting mechanism as well. It is, for example, demcoracy that brought Bush to power. It is also democracy that brought Hitler to power. Although mitigating the “tyranny of the lowest common denominator” may seem undemocratic, which it is, experience has taught us, that without it, we invariably get into situations that we were hoping to avoid by implementing democracy. Democracy must have a fail-safe mechanism built in. One fairly easy way to do that, is to do away with the black-and-white system of two parties as it is essentially done in the US, and to go to a more proportional system like they have in Germany. It makes governments less powerful, more hesitant. That is often a disadvantage, but it is a powerful protection against the extremisms inherent to an unmitigated democracy. -
I pressed "Add Comment" to soon. This should be added as well:
Of course, it speaks for itself that educators of whom it can be shown beyond the reasonable doubt that they are knowingly and willingly indoctrinating children with demonstrable falsehoods must be prosecuted. This is child abuse of the worst kind.
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@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
I pressed "Add Comment" to soon. This should be added as well:
Of course, it speaks for itself that educators of whom it can be shown beyond the reasonable doubt that they are knowingly and willingly indoctrinating children with demonstrable falsehoods must be prosecuted. This is child abuse of the worst kind.
Bart I have to disagree. I see your point, but teaching a child about religion because you believe in it is not indoctrination and I think it's unfair to say they should be prosecuted. I'm not sure if you are talking about the extreme religious indoctrination, or religious teaching in general so perhaps you can clarify.
I am of the belief kids should be taught everything and they choose for themselves, but that is just me and my opinion. But if someone is religious and they teach their kids about their beliefs how can we fault anyone for that? Yes, it gets taken too far in cult-like scenarios or extremism, but if a mother wants to teach her son about God, she has that right. If a father wants his child to learn about the bible, he has the right to send his kid to a school to learn about it.
I am very science-minded, but I don't think anyone should be prosecuted for not believing what I do. -
@ Chris Hogg
Bart I have to disagree. I see your point, but teaching a child about religion because you believe in it is not indoctrination and I think it's unfair to say they should be prosecuted. I'm not sure if you are talking about the extreme religious indoctrination, or religious teaching in general so perhaps you can clarify.
I am of the belief kids should be taught everything and they choose for themselves, but that is just me and my opinion. But if someone is religious and they teach their kids about their beliefs how can we fault anyone for that? Yes, it gets taken to far in cult-like scenarios or extremism, but if a mother wants to teach her son about God, she has that right. If a father wants his child to learn about the bible, he has the right to send his kid to a school to learn about it.
I am very science-minded, but I don't think anyone should be prosecuted for not believing what I do.
I agree with you, Chris. Nothing of what I wrote contradicts what you wrote. -
@ Bart B. Van Bockstaele
I agree with you, Chris. Nothing of what I wrote contradicts what you wrote.
Thanks for the clarification. Text-based conversations sometimes lose their context, so I was not sure what you were arguing but I get it now. -
@ Chris Hogg
Thanks for the clarification. Text-based conversations sometimes lose their context, so I was not sure what you were arguing but I get it now. Indeed. Let me state it explicitly: no one should ever be convicted for not knowing something that they honestly do not know.
If a parent is convinced of the existence of a particular God that parent should have the right to talk to her/his children about it.
However, if a parent knows that what he/she is teaching her/his children is a fallacy, that parent should be prosecuted, for that amounts to child abuse. That includes religion, but it is far from only about religion.
For the rest, hatred should not be taught in schools. That pretty much takes care of religion in schools, for -to the best of my knowledge- there isn't a single religion that does not teach hate in some shape or form. -
The work of people like William Wilberforce eventually spread throughout the West, to America, and along with the likes of Mahatma Ghandi, has now begun to influence places like India. Unfortunately, just as it took many years to get to the inadequate state of Western egalitarianism today, so it is still a work of progress in places like India. We have recently remembered the work of Martin Luther King in his struggle to bring fair practice to America. We have not resolved our own racial issues sufficiently to point fingers at other nations that are working on the same problem, but for whom the egalitarian movement was more recently introduced.
But wherever it happens, the kind of thing that happened to this little girl is totally unacceptable, and those who strive to correct such bigotry should be recognized, encouraged and remembered for their labor of love.
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Just a wee qualification to the reference to democracy above...
Democracy is government of the people, by the people, for the people. In contemporary context that means government by informed electoral consensus. Obviously, no such government exists today.
And just because George Bush, or David Rockefeller, or Gordon Brown, or Rupert Murdoch, or our silly political science lecturer tells us what we have today is democracy; that don't make it true, noble dudes.
What we have today is representationalism; which is electing someone else's choice of candidate, usually of a Tweedledum or Tweedledee political party, to do our thinking for us; and to determine our future for us.
Sound like an intelligent or recommendable course? As the lady said "I don't think so!"
While we are at it, a 49% to 51 percent vote is not a triumph of democracy. It is empirical evidence of almost total division in the community and it is a virtual guarantee of failure and conflict stemming from whatever action was so decided.
We have been lied to fellas. Conned. Sucked in. Done like a dinner.
There have been many successful democracies, ranging in longevity for 300 to 500 years; it's just that someone has emptied the libraries of those enlightening tomes. Yes, the Vatican was one, and the other, believe it or not, was the UN.
By the way, in the real world, and carefully measured, successful consensus depends entirely on access to all relevant information, The more info, the greater the consensus achieved; usually between 93% and 97%. I kid you not. This was tested on 3500 people in 1985.
But I have lived in cultures where this is the norm, and it is the easiest and most successful form of decision-making next to simply shooting anyone who disagrees with you, which is of course, 100%, but there are fewer happy smiles.
Cheers fellas.
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Would a better form of democracy, or a better form of government of any kind, reduce the likelihood of the kind of atrocity perpetrated on the girl that is the subject of this article?
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No.
Do you think before you write? Do you even know what thinking is?
If you successfully install a government of the people, there is a time lag of generations before old cultures and religious regimes die out in the face of education and knowledge.
Because better government is not a magic wand, do you suggest we do nothing; or go backwards?
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KINDLY ANSWER THE ABOE QUESTIONS AND ....TELL ME IF THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS IS A BIGOT WITH A EVANGELISM AGENDA ......OR NOT ...???????
ravin ...... no need to shout. We can't hear you on this wire.
To answer your enclosed question amidst the shout .... cgull isn't a bigot and lol ... if c has an agenda he does a remarkable job of hiding said agenda. -
ravim, i have watched the interaction between you and cgull, Bart and Tony R (different person than me, same first name). Cgull is a good reporter, and avoids taking sides, except to try to stand up for things like justice and freedom. Bart and Tony R are both intelligent, eloquent atheists (or atheistic agnostics) who are interested in the same goals, but who are both very frustrated with the negative impact of all religions on the world. They have no intention of singling out Hinduism or any other faith. If anything, they have much more negative to say about Christianity than Hinduism, likely because, living in a largely Christian society, they have faced the errors of Christianity so much.
ravim, it is i who you should be frustrated with, as i am an evangelical Christian. In fact, i think both cgull and Bart would both agree with you that it is improper for me to try to influence you to consider the Christian faith (properly understood) as the only available path to the special eternity God has prepared for you. To you this should be a bigoted position, and to them it should be that as well as rubbish. Yet, i am foolish enough to believe this is true.
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Just a little information, ravimpillay's account has been closed so he is no longer on here.
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@ tonystepravim, it is i who you should be frustrated with, as i am an evangelical Christian. In fact, i think both cgull and Bart would both agree with you that it is improper for me to try to influence you to consider the Christian faith (properly understood) as the only available path to the special eternity God has prepared for you. To you this should be a bigoted position, and to them it should be that as well as rubbish. Nope. I am a firm believer in the freedom of speech. Religion, mostly, but not only that, has tried to restrict that, and we know all too well, that it is not a good thing. Everyone should be free to say whatever he or she wants to say. I have one restriction to that rule: if one knowingly and willingly disperses untruths as truths, one *must* face the music in the form of a conviction if, after due process, it can be shown beyond the reasonable doubt that one did indeed willingly and knowingly spread untruths.
That is important, because this allows us to sue faith healers and other scum who exploit the naiveté and gullibility of the desperate and the unsophisticated.
@ tonystepYet, i am foolish enough to believe this is true. As long as someone simply states “I believe”, possibly because God talks to her/him in her/his dreams/visions/whatever, I do not think that many atheists would ever object. They will, however, start to wag their tails if that person claims “scientific proof”, because it then becomes a scientific issue, subject to scientific confirmation or rebuttal. In the case of superstitions like religion, homeopathy, healing magnets, quantum healing, angelic protectors, whatever… it is not possible to win the argument as a believer. If it were possible, these things would still be studied by mainstream science. They have had their chances, very many more than one. They have failed all of them. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Just a little information, ravimpillay's account has been closed so he is no longer on here. That is true, but his comments still are ^_^ -
Thanks Helena and Tonystep. The guy doesn't say one word about the girl and feel sorry for her. He seem to side with the guy who did this.
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Atthough he can no longer post comments, can he read this stuff? I hope so.
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@ tonystep
Atthough he can no longer post comments, can he read this stuff? I hope so.
Good question Tony.
Probably a question that you should direct to Chris or David. Or you could even put the question in the DigitalJournal.com Help group. -
@ tonystep
Atthough he can no longer post comments, can he read this stuff? I hope so. Yes. Any visitor can read this stuff. -
Good. Ravim, i hope you think all of this through, and realize none of us have anything negative to say specifically about Hinduism, and that it is simply the horror of a child being pushed into hot coals that everyone is reacting to. All religions, and atheists too, have been guilty of committing atrocities. In fact, as religions go, i would say Hinduism is more pacifist than most. I am sure you, too, must feel for this innocent child who has suffered unnecessarily. This is of course a natural reaction of humanity. As pointed out, the caste system is not inherently Hindu.
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6-year-old girl thrown on fire for being 'lowest class'
