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article imageExclusive: Lenovo Still Suffering From Faulty Order System, Causing Lengthy Delays

Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Chris Hogg in Business | 32 comments | 6178 views
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In a follow-up to a story we broke in January, DigitalJournal.com has learned Lenovo customers continue to experience delays with computer orders. Lenovo Canada implemented a faulty IT system that is still not working almost four months later.

Digital Journal — When Nathaniel Warsh bought a ThinkPad from Lenovo, he had no idea the level of frustration he was about to experience. Based in Toronto, Warsh placed an order for a ThinkPad on Jan. 5 and later called seven times just to ensure his laptop would be delivered. He was put on hold for up to an hour every time he called, and Lenovo customer service reps (CSRs) couldn’t answer his questions. He said he was stiffed on the price of his unit after Lenovo lost his original order.

“Many small companies are run well and give excellent customer service,” Warsh told DigitalJournal.com. “Many big companies run efficiently and I don't have to think twice about my product arriving on time, let alone arriving at all. Lenovo Canada takes the worst of both: a large company charging premium prices for a premium product and a customer support system from 1995.”

In a recent investigative report, DigitalJournal.com learned computer giant Lenovo rolled out a new IT infrastructure in Canada that sparked several issues, including delays with orders, problems with getting parts and what many describe as a horrible customer experience. The situation, as we learned, is that CSRs at Lenovo are unable to track some PC shipments. That means CSRs are sometimes unable to tell a customer when a product will be shipped, forcing many customers to wait months for orders originally quoted to ship in one to two weeks.

Initially downplaying the severity of the issue, Lenovo told DigitalJournal.com the system errors were not widespread and did not affect every customer. After DigitalJournal.com pressured the company to give customers answers, Lenovo eventually admitted their system was problematic and that they were doing everything in their power to fix problems. Lenovo said the new IT infrastructure, including its company’s order system, will be implemented globally and Canada is being used as the test market for the new software.

The system was installed in November 2007, and DigitalJournal.com has now confirmed the company is still suffering from delays and setbacks four months later.

Lenovo communications and public relations manager Ann Mahdy told DigitalJournal.com they are currently working on resolving order issues and it’s taking so long because they want to be certain errors are fixed properly.

“We want to ensure that all issues are fully investigated before any fixes are applied,” she said. “Meanwhile, we're resolving the system issues and clearing the back orders.”

Inside Lenovo’s New IT Infrastructure



With the hopes of becoming more efficient and better equipped to meet the needs of customers, Lenovo partnered with i2 Technologies, a company that builds supply-chain management solutions.

Headquartered in Dallas, Texas, i2 Technologies is publicly traded and is well known in the industry. It has provided supply chain solutions for businesses including IBM, Texas Instruments, Samsung and many others.

At a 2007 company event in Orlando, Lenovo Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer, Steve Bandrowczak, said the company didn't have the adaptability to be competitive, or to meet market, price and supply changes. So it partnered with i2 to meet market demand.

"One of the things that was extremely important to us is to look at our supply chain from and end-to-end process standpoint,” Bandrowczak said at the event. “One of the things that is most frustrating to any customer is they place an order and you can't deliver that product when the customer wants it. Not when you want to deliver it, not when your supply chain can deliver it, but when the customer wants it. And when you look at our capabilities, we had a hard time building products and orders to when a customer needed it."

Lenovo said it changed software and business practices, as well as some of its infrastructure and the way it conducted billing. The new i2-developed system allowed Lenovo to look at incidents like market shortages of hard drives or memory, and if a customer wanted something specific, the system steered them away from products that were experiencing shortages, for example. Lenovo would then offer a customer an alternative along with a discount, said Bandrowczak. He also said a company needs to make end-to-end changes to do this and i2 was a critical factor in developing its technology.

"When you look at when we implemented all of the changes we make, [there was a] 43 per cent improvement in our notebook serviceability,” said Bandrowczak.

DigitalJournal.com contacted i2 Technologies to find out where problems existed at Lenovo. When we asked for details about Lenovo, however, Raja Chandrashekar, Vice President of the company’s High Technology group, said they have to respect the confidentiality agreement between i2 Technologies and Lenovo and he could not provide any details as to the source of the problems.

"We are aware of reports in the press about challenges,” said Chandrashekar in a telephone interview. “We've certainly been out there in the blogs and stuff with challenges with user experience. I think Lenovo has been extremely expedient about addressing [issues], making changes. I believe there have been significant improvements in addressing challenges they've had with lead times and things like that, with delivering products. I think they've understood and made corrections from a process perspective to overcome those.”

Chandrashekar said it’s normal for a company to have an adjustment period after going live with changes of this magnitude. When asked if Lenovo’s problems were a result of i2 Technology’s software or the ways in which Lenovo themselves were handling it, Chandrashekar would not provide details.

"I really can't comment,” he said. “I think it's something you should talk with Lenovo [about]. I'm surprised that Lenovo Canada wouldn't speak with you and give you a perspective on what they're doing, what they're seeing. I understand some of the user experience problems are associated with long delays for product. I don’t' know if that's a product availability issue which happens [from] time to time in the high-tech industry.”

Chandrashekar said Lenovo’s issues might be a result of many factors. "You may be even seeing a combination of genuine availability issues in the market,” he said. “I saw that there are some lead times that are longer…It may even be -- and I'm speculating here -- it could even be a general shortage.”

However, Lenovo says the company is not suffering from any product shortages. "We are not experiencing any product delays or supply shortages at this time, nor have we experienced any difficulties with i2 Technology's order management system," said Mahdy. "As we have said, at the end of 2007, we began deploying a new order and delivery system, and there have been instances where customer orders have been delayed. We are working directly with our customers to resolve any issues, and apologize for any inconvenience."

Customer Dissatisfaction



The promise of fixing the IT system is not good enough for customers like Warsh. After numerous calls to the company to check on the status of his order, Warsh could not get answers from Lenovo CSRs as to when his laptop would be delivered. He said he was eventually told his order was “stalled” and he would have to re-order (which meant he would lose the price he was first quoted). After arguing about this delay and the price increase, Warsh said the Lenovo rep didn’t understand what was wrong. The rep said they couldn’t match his original order price. He was told he could apply for a rebate but Lenovo might not honour it.

Warsh, who runs his own small movie production company, waited on hold for 30 to 50 minutes every time he called Lenovo. He eventually got his laptop but it was short 1GB of memory.

“The worst part was having to call seven times just to ensure the order was coming along,” Warsh said. “It was like arranging an import direct from a factory in Asia. I've done that before, it only took three calls, and I never had to hold.”

Warsh said the Lenovo rep was honest about the new faulty order system, but he only received an apology from them on his seventh call. He got the distinct impression Lenovo’s CSRs really had no idea what was going on.

After a lot of frustration, Warsh finally got his laptop. He thought his troubles were over until he actually used it. He said the unit caused him “serious eye strain.” Lenovo told him it was caused by the high resolution of the screen (1680x1050) but Warsh said he has no issues on his other laptop in that resolution. Fed up with the whole ordeal, he paid a 15 per cent restocking fee and returned the laptop. He said he was uneasy about the quality of components Lenovo was putting in its laptops.

“The ordering fiasco left me displeased,” he said. “I was willing to ignore it until I read [DigitalJournal.com]’s article, specifically about what the executives had to say. They proved that Lenovo Canada is a backwater operation staffed by people who can't run a company, let alone be in touch with their customers.”

When Did Lenovo Actually Implement Its New System?


The technical problems at Lenovo were discovered after I purchased a laptop from the company on Dec. 8, 2007. I waited 39 days before my laptop finally arrived, but I had to pressure the company to make that happen. Customer service reps couldn’t tell me when I would receive my order; Lenovo Canada president and CEO Peter Mockler lashed back at me when I said the company has problems with its ordering system. He told me he has “heard nothing about problems.” And the public relations rep for Lenovo was rude and dismissive. The PR department told me my order was late because it was out of stock, not because of their order system malfunctions. The PR department has since changed its tone, however, and is being far more cooperative in answering questions.

When I eventually got my laptop, it only lasted four days because it came with a defective motherboard that stopped working. I had to ship it back to a designated Lenovo service center to be fixed, and the waiting game began all over again. I eventually received a call from Lenovo saying they could not get replacement parts and I was offered a free upgrade to a model above. I was told it would ship to me in a few days. However, those few days turned into weeks so I cancelled my order. If I had waited for that replacement unit to arrive, it would have been almost 70 days since my initial purchase.

When DigitalJournal.com broke the news, Lenovo told us problems were hit and miss and not everyone was affected. Since then, however, we have received a number of follow-ups from many Lenovo customers who have experienced the exact same problems with delays.

Since publishing our report, Lenovo issued an apology to customers on its website forum, saying “During January 2008, Lenovo Canada transitioned to a new IT infrastructure, and during this transition period, a number of unforeseen issues arose which affected the customer experience. We apologize and do appreciate the patience of our customers as we continue to work through these issues.”

Interestingly enough, however, that statement was deleted after we called out Lenovo on the date it said it transitioned. The public comment claimed the system was implemented in January 2008; however, we were told by insiders at Lenovo it was in fact implemented in November 2007. This discrepancy, in our opinion, was not fair or honest to Lenovo customers.

We confronted PR rep Mahdy about the discrepancy in dates and asked her why Lenovo was publicly saying the system was implemented in January when we knew it was in fact implemented two months prior. Mahdy replied to our email with a simple “The new system went live in November 2007, and was fully deployed in January 2008.”

You can't find the comment on Lenovo's forum anymore because it was deleted by Lenovo, but one DigitalJournal.com reader posted a full copy of it here.

Online Support Saving (Some) Face for Lenovo



Some customers are more patient than others. Toronto resident Natasha P. (who asked her last name not be disclosed) placed an order on Jan. 22 and was promised delivery in one to two weeks. She called to confirm the shipment and was told it wasn’t even built yet, and an apologetic Lenovo rep offered her a $100 rebate and promised it would take another two weeks. As more time passed, however, she called in again and the rep was unable to tell her the status of her shipment. The rep eventually called her back and told her she “may” receive her laptop in the third week of May.

A Lenovo CSR told her “warehouses are overwhelmed” and that this delay is not usual business practice.

Natasha said she replied by email to Lenovo and complained about the wait time and wanted to know an exact date of shipment. She forwarded a link to DigitalJournal.com’s original report to Lenovo in an effort to inform them this issue was already being publicized. Lenovo’s tone changed when they received this email, and the laptop was then promptly shipped.

Despite the wait, Natasha said she would still consider recommending Lenovo to a friend. “In the end, a working laptop is more important to me than how long it takes to ship it,” she said. “I'm in the lucky situation of already having a computer and not being in a rush. That does not mean however that I appreciate the uncertainty about whether my order will be fulfilled. I would definitely warn my friend about the entire experience with Lenovo.”

After our first email interview with Natasha she followed up to say her order did arrive, and she thinks it was likely sped up because she mentioned DigitalJournal.com’s report. “Overall, if my computer keeps working I'm happy,” she wrote.

And for anyone who wanted more evidence of delays in ordering from Lenovo, just talk to Owen Wiltshire. Living in Montreal, Wiltshire said the worst part of his order process was dealing with poor customer service people. “I found the sales support was absolutely horrible,” he told DigitalJournal.com. “They never returned calls, did not follow up on emails, and it took over an hour to reach them on hold.”

Wilshire placed an order on Dec. 27, 2007, and the notebook didn’t arrive until Feb. 21, 2008. Wiltshire said the saving grace for Lenovo was the online support he received from a rep named “Mark_Lenovo.” He said Mark was unable to get his laptop to him any faster but he did respond to concerns quickly.

“At times I really didn't understand why I was even bothering to order from Lenovo given how hard it was to do so, but Mark's quick online replies calmed me down sufficiently,” Wiltshire said. “I realize there is a new system in place and hopefully Lenovo Canada will get its ass in gear.”

------

DigitalJournal.com will continue to follow this story. If you have any comments or want to tell a story of your own, please leave them in the comment thread below.

If you missed the Global TV report in which consumer reporter Sean O'Shea interviewed a Lenovo customer and talked to us about Lenovo shipping delays, you can view it below:

article:251252:48::0

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  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Chris V. (cgull)
    #1
    Can't believe they can't manage a simple delivery system and say sorry even. They act like it is the customers fault. All they need to do is attach a tracking number to the billing invoice. If this were IBM you guys would not have experience this. Here every major US supplier has a tracking system and the buyer's account is updated every day. If there is any additional delays they apologize either refund it or upgrade to the next shipping method. For every disgruntled customer, they will be losing additional customers. They better learn customer service or they should sell it to somebody else.

    I don't have a big company but I make sure my customer gets the tracking number within 24 hours and we can both check the tracking progress every day. If there is a delay I contact the shipping company to track the package, if it is lost I refund the buyer and get the money from the shipper which usually takes a month but the customer gets the refund first.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Bob Ewing
    #2
    Great followup, good customer service is vital; this includes prompt and accurate answers to consumer inquirers; Lenovo has problems and seems to be avoiding the rather than dealing with them.

    When I go to buy a laptop, I'll be walking to the only store in town that sells them and doing business face2face.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Pamela Jean (GotTheScoop)
    #3
    I guess I don't understand why anyone would do business with this company? Is there a very limited option of choices for consumers in Canada or what?

    I would have just cancelled my order and moved on to another company.......

    Excellent report as usual Chris.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Chris Hogg
    #4
    @ Pamela Jean (GotTheScoop)
    I guess I don't understand why anyone would do business with this company? Is there a very limited option of choices for consumers in Canada or what?

    I would have just cancelled my order and moved on to another company.......

    Excellent report as usual Chris.

    There are many other choices Pam, but Lenovo is a very large company who purchased IBM's computer division that is well known for people who want to purchase ThinkPads. There are many people out there who are not aware they might face delays so they walk into it blind.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  malan
    #5
    this is insane. how can a business not have a model set in place to get their products in people's hands? The fact that there are so many problems proves that Lenovo does not know how to operate their business and by them not fixing the problem they are stating that they do not care.

    I will never buy a product from Lenovo in my entire life. Thanks for the post Chris.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Carolyn E. Price (gohomelaker)
    #6
    This is an incredible story Chris, good job.

    For one, I do not understand how by just implementing an IT infrastructure it can affect the customer from getting any kind of rational explanation from Lenovo about an order or even getting the proper equipment in a timely manner. To top it off, it would seem that they are also having quality issues with the computers they are eventually shipping out to their customers.

    It would appear that this company has serious problems and don't seem to be able to address them in an orderly or rational fashion. If it was simply an IT infrastructure problem, don't you think they would have backed it out by now? It really sounds to me like they have problems from top to bottom.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Cynthia T. [Picasso]
    #7
    Great job Chris of reporting this in your first report and a great followup.
    @ Bob Ewing

    When I go to buy a laptop, I'll be walking to the only store in town that sells them and doing business face2face.


    I'm with you Bob.

    I wanted a new laptop before I went to Florida. My son-in-law gave me a recommendation of what to buy.

    I went to a store bought it and walked out with it.
  • Sue D. Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Sue D.
    #8
    Excellent follow up Chris and it is good you are staying on this. Customer service sounds like it is handled by children and the lack of forthcoming information from the company itself is reason to worry that the problems reported might just be the tip of the iceberg.

    It sounds like incompetence, from product right down to CS and the lack of concern for costumer satisfaction is simply ignorant for a company the size of one you are describing.

    Unreal.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Debra Myers (skyangel)
    #9
    I am of the belief that if I'm going to spend money on products like this, I want to see it, and buy it right then and there. I guess I'm just too worried that ordering it would result in problems like Lenovo's customers have had.

    I can't believe that all of the Lenovo customers have had the patience they've had...I'd have flown off the handle much sooner. I realize that they do have some problems to work out, but if a CSR gets rude to me or acts like she doesn't have a clue about anything...I'm outa there. It does still sound like Lenovo has problem they still need to address.

    Good follow-up, Chris.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Chris V. (cgull)
    #10
    Lenovo should walk to Apple Store or order an item from Apple, they will know what Customer service is all about. They send e-mails through out to keep the customers updated.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Debra Myers (skyangel)
    #11
    Another thought that just came to mind is that Mark Lenovo does seem to be the only one that is trying to solve the problems...at least to some degree. If he is the only one willing to go head to head with a customer...no matter how disgruntled that customer might be...he does make an effort. This may be more than what one person can solve...which is something to think about.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  KJ (momentsintime)
    #12
    thank you for the follow up. We may soon be upgrading a computer here and it's important to know the bad service/ good service of companies prior to ordering.
  • beentheredonethat Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  beentheredonethat
    #13
    Quick message before I run off to class.

    I feel like there's some weird spite going on here. Ok so they screwed up their system a bit. I've had much worse customer service from linksys/cisco when it took me (and countless others) 4 months to get a $1000 NAS system RMA'd. They have done numerous screw-ups on it since then, and I consider it the worst purchase I've ever made - will not buy from linksys/cisco again if I can avoid it. Where was the DJ article for that?

    I commented in the last article about my order. Turns out my order was shipped on Feb 21, and I ordered on Feb 8. Glad I didn't change my mind b/c of the blown up issues here. This T61p I got is amazing. I've never seen such a solid laptop where everything seems to have been done right. Vista is a joke... when I booted it it took 20 mins doing some setup while it said "Vista knows you're time is important, that's why we made the fastest OS possible for you," or some garbage. I'm taking the cdrom out, throwing in two hard drives, gonna do XP x64 and use some VMware with VT now. Btw, this is also my new music production workstation.

    The fact that Mark from Lenovo is on forums trying to help people really surprised me. I think I've only seen this from OCZ in the past. I never called Lenovo, never bothered. I don't know how many hours I spent on the phone with Linksys... I still have the stupid 2 songs they play while on hold stuck in my head though!

    Anyway, if you guys want to go get a Dell or Apple that's your choice. I can see how this would be a difficult experience for less tech-savy, with vista compatability issues, etc, etc. Maybe bad on Lenovo for not being more appealing to non-business users I guess? Can't go more in depth right now, but just wanna get this out there. Stoked on my thinkpad.

    Been there done that.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Eric S. Wyatt
    #14
    Baring some need to have their product specifically, it seems hard to imagine purchasing from Lenovo. I bought a laptop and a desktop last year. Granted, my needs are pretty easily met (ie, no specific need for a certain model or graphics card or whatever). Both times I shopped through an online retailer, and received the product ordered within 4 days of ordering. The thought of ordering a computer and waiting for months to get it is beyond me...but maybe i've just been lucky.

    Great reporting Chris. Hopefully, folks who are considering Lenovo will run across these reports prior to purchase, so they have some background before buying.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Cat Lover
    #15
    This is a great follow-up but it's too bad to see so many people still having problems.

    @ beentheredonethat
    Quick message before I run off to class.

    I feel like there's some weird spite going on here. Ok so they screwed up their system a bit. I've had much worse customer service from linksys/cisco when it took me (and countless others) 4 months to get a $1000 NAS system RMA'd. They have done numerous screw-ups on it since then, and I consider it the worst purchase I've ever made - will not buy from linksys/cisco again if I can avoid it. Where was the DJ article for that?

    I commented in the last article about my order. Turns out my order was shipped on Feb 21, and I ordered on Feb 8. Glad I didn't change my mind b/c of the blown up issues here. This T61p I got is amazing. I've never seen such a solid laptop where everything seems to have been done right. Vista is a joke... when I booted it it took 20 mins doing some setup while it said "Vista knows you're time is important, that's why we made the fastest OS possible for you," or some garbage. I'm taking the cdrom out, throwing in two hard drives, gonna do XP x64 and use some VMware with VT now. Btw, this is also my new music production workstation.

    The fact that Mark from Lenovo is on forums trying to help people really surprised me. I think I've only seen this from OCZ in the past. I never called Lenovo, never bothered. I don't know how many hours I spent on the phone with Linksys... I still have the stupid 2 songs they play while on hold stuck in my head though!

    Anyway, if you guys want to go get a Dell or Apple that's your choice. I can see how this would be a difficult experience for less tech-savy, with vista compatability issues, etc, etc. Maybe bad on Lenovo for not being more appealing to non-business users I guess? Can't go more in depth right now, but just wanna get this out there. Stoked on my thinkpad.

    Been there done that.

    Looks like you are one of the lucky ones to not have any problems. As you can see from the comment thread in the first article posted on this site and from the people quoted here, it's not always the case. You're lucky.

    Also, I have to agree that Mark_Lenovo has stood out to everyone here and he does deserve credit for his work. Too bad the customer service elsewhere in the company does not follow Mark's lead.

    Let's also hope that Lenovo follows up with you Chris when these problems are fixed. They certainly should come to you to let you know when it's all over and done with.
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Samantha A. Torrence
    #16
    Great Article Chris, and it seems that some people at both Lenovo and i2 Technologies need to go back to some of the basics classes to ensure new IT infrastructure is working properly, the right kinds is being used, and the proper education for employees is being utilized. Customers should also receive an announcement on the website before utilization with instructions on who to contact if a problem arises.

    again, great coverage.
  • Mark_Lenovo Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Mark_Lenovo
    #17
    Chris,

    A quick point of clarification- The forum post you are referencing has remained in the forum since it was put up in the the X and X - tablet Thinkpad sections. Here is the link to the X series shipping discussion where posted. http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=X_Series_Thinkpads&thread.id=1&view=by_date_ascending&page=13

    While these remain, unfortunately, the T series shipping discussion was accidentally deleted over the weekend. We are working to restore the thread. While we attempt this, we created a replacement so T customers could continue to share shipping experience points and receive assistance. I've reposted the bulletin to that thread. It can be found here. http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=T_Series_Thinkpads&thread.id=2915
  • avatar Posted Mar 5, 2008 by  Paul Wallis (Wanderlaugh)
    #18
    I used to work for Consumer Affairs in Australia. Basic laws involved are consumer law, trade practices, and common law.

    A few points:

    1. When money is paid for a service, and that service isn't provided, the supplier is at fault.

    2. Misrepresentation of a service or terms of service, or the nature of a transaction, is also wrong, at law.

    3. Publicly issued statements which are demonstrably wrong or misleading is not in any sense a good idea. It leaves the company open to some pretty dire consequences.

    4. If goods provided aren't fit for the purpose for which they were purchased, the supplier is again at fault, because the service is deemed not to have been provided.

    This is getting very close to class action time.

    On the belief that it's intended to meet normal standards of commercial practices and professional service provision, I would suggest to Mr. Lenovo:

    (a) Whoever thinks it's a good idea to handle customer service and media relations like this is sacked immediately. "Loose cannon" barely begins to describe it. This is "legal suicide by press release". It's the sort of thing that leads to court findings like "pattern of deceit".

    (b) That competent contractors are obtained to fill these orders properly.

    (c) That Lenovo itself, if any of this is caused by a third party, consider legal action regarding defects in their own supply chain. These failures are potential grounds for damages.

    (d) That heaven and Earth are moved to fill customer orders and kill the backlog, ensuring functional machines are sent to the outstanding customers.

    (e) That some sort of concession in terms of value of services .is made to aggrieved customers.
  • Adam Posted Mar 6, 2008 by  Adam
    #19
    This report is stunning Chris, I think Canadian buyers will know details on what is being going on inside lenovo Canada for the past few months more here than anywhere else.

    Lenovo has screwed up big time, a company is supposed to test run any new system before presenting it to customers, it is amazing how a big company forgot to do "back-end" and "front-end" testing ahead of time, lets forget testing, what about a backup plan, in IT you would be digging your own grave if you do not have such a plan. The question of target market and interests of a company arises here; to lenovo Canadian market is small therefore we are just Guinea Pigs for their business.

    Apple introduced a new joint ordering system in the United States and Canada at the same time nearly 2 years ago, its a system where you go online pick up a configuration and customize it according to your needs and although Apple has two different domains apple.com and apple.ca but actually Apple US is the one that handles orders from both Canadian and US side, one system saves Apple from many problems. If anyone is looking for a laptop urgently, Apple ships a customized machine within 24 hours and delivers within 5 business days.

    Everybody knows leopard is better than Vista, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHK8Irb3P5E
  • Pat Morin Posted Mar 6, 2008 by  Pat Morin
    #20
    Thanks for the report Chris, and the email today. For anyone who still cares, my experience is described on my webpage:

    http://cg.scs.carleton.ca/~morin/misc/lenovo.html

    80 days and counting... I was told by my colleague who actually ordered the computers that Lenovo recently dinged his credit card for the cost of the two laptops, so I'm assuming they will be here in the next day or two.

    Pat
  • TrishaK Posted Mar 7, 2008 by  TrishaK
    #21
    Chris,

    Thank you so much for giving a voice, and bringing attention, to those of us who have suffered this horrible abuse from Lenovo.

    Lenovo Canada president and CEO Peter Mockler is a coward, who owes you a big apology!

    You should bring your story to the attention of the presidents of Lenovo in the US and in China.

    Trisha K
  • nwarsh Posted Mar 10, 2008 by  nwarsh
    #22
    Well it's been almost a month since I sent back the T61p mentioned in your article, and Lenovo has still not issued a refund. While the CSRs are generally nice, no one seems able to do anything. Another few days and I'll be forced to dispute the charge with the credit card company.

    Great article Chris, and many thanks for giving a voice to all our combined frustration.

    Nathaniel
  • avatar Posted Mar 10, 2008 by  Chris Hogg
    #23
    Mark are you following this thread?

    Companies don't wait a month to charge customers so they certainly shouldn't take a month to refund them. Can you help Nathaniel?
  • Mark_Lenovo Posted Mar 10, 2008 by  Mark_Lenovo
    #24
    Pat, nwarsh,

    Updates sent through your PM here.

    Chris, thanks for the email prompt. ; )

    I have migrated to a new Lenovo email address - is there a way I can update that in my profile so I receive PM notices faster?

    Thanks!
  • Doggy Posted Mar 13, 2008 by  Doggy
    #25
    Excellent article, at par with the first one.

    Pls allow me to add my story here.

    Feb. 29 : Order by phone: 2 T61p, some addt'l equipment, addt'l warranty + some specific conditions that were accepted by the other party.
    3 identical e-mail confirmations sent within seconds of hanging the phone;
    BUT:
    - No details on the machines' configuration, when both had been heavily customised;
    - No mention of the ordered warranties;
    - Discount (E-coupon I had to ask for) not specified.
    - Sub-totals, taxes & total don't agree with my own calculations;
    - No shipping date (3-4 weeks on the Web page);
    - Zilch on the specific conditions (XP Pro recovery CDs, billing & warranty dates, return policy).

    Mar. 4 : 2 identical e-mails
    Subject: Confirmation for order# xxxx
    Body: All or part of your order has shipped. AND NO OTHER DETAILS.

    March 5 : 1 E-mail (For 2 distinct warranties)
    Subject: Lenovo Services Registration Required : Order# xxxx
    Body: You must register before Mar. 31 by mailing the serial#, etc..

    March 7:
    Out of the blue, UPS delivers 3 docking stations & 1 carrying case (Effectively ordered).

    March 9: My credit card was billed 3 times (Mar. 7, 8 & 9), and I still haven't received any invoice from Lenovo yet (A packing list doesn't show prices or taxes)

    Mar. 6-11: Been dealing with up to 4 Lenovo employees. All as nice as ineffectual, the omnipresent Mark being the nicest.

    Mar. 11: Phoned & asked to talk to a supervisor:
    - Been told that s/o would call me within 3 days,
    - Said the magic words: "Cancel the order",
    - Was instantly switched to an "Americas Inside Sales Representative- Lenovo Ltd./2nd Level Support - Lenovo Canada".
    - Asked for some specific points to be confirmed in writing, what was partially done.

    Mar. 12: I found this article.

    As to now:
    - I still do not have any itemised costing (sub-totals, discount, taxes) for what I have ordered; not even a final total
    - My credit card has been charged three times for items I never received an invoice for;
    - I've been billed for the warranties on Mar. 7;
    - I was told in writing, dated Mar. 11, that the machines would be shipped within 3-4 weeks.
    - The warranty service would start from Mar. 1st, but
    - I would lose it if I don't register by Mar. 31 (No mention of refunds).

    I asked for the communications to be restricted to e-mail only, so I'm leaving a paper trail, something I can only encourage everyone to do. I might even post some excerpts.
  • avatar Posted Mar 13, 2008 by  Chris Hogg
    #26
    Wow that is a whole mess of problems "doggy." I guess you are another "isolated incident" in this ongoing problem. Also, your idea to leave a paper trail is smart, however I've been told by many people now that even if you are promised delivery in a certain time frame it often goes outside that promised window. This was my experience also.

    The fact Lenovo can't get a laptop delivered in three to four weeks is honestly quite sad. Dell, Apple and others can deliver in about 5-10 business days from day of original order in almost every case.

    You mentioned briefly you talked with Mark_Lenovo -- did he help you? How do you want to proceed now -- refund or you want your product?

    Feel free to click on my name and use the contact form on your right to get in touch with me (you have to be logged in).

    If you can give me some details as to what city your in and if you are looking for a refund or if you want someone to help deliver your product I'll see what I can do to help.
  • Doggy Posted Mar 13, 2008 by  Doggy
    #27
    Hi Chris,

    The idea behind the paper trail is not to guarantee a delivery date, but to provide support for further action if needed.
    Although I understand why ppl tend to focus on delivery, I surmise that in Lenovo's case, the process is flawed right from the start. Remember the old GIGO principle?

    In my case, even if I get the right machines, and in working order, I'll still have to deal with a warranty starting on March 1st, undocumented billing, charge for a useless service (warranty), or refusal to confirm -and probably respect- some of the pre-agreed extra conditions.

    I'm too old for pacifiers, too cynic for placebos. I don't give any credit to anyone feeling my pain, in a business situation.
    That's why I'm not anymore interested in Mark_Lenovo's type of help.
    I was utterly thrilled when he finally gave me the name & phone of another of the sales rep. A second one who took great care of not risking irking me further by answering my message. :-)
    I jumped for joy when Mark could forward me a copy of the terms and conditions from the Lenovo.com website he had received from the same sales rep. Devoured them as they were some magical drug that would cure my Lenovo-induced illness. :-))
    Like the joy I'm positive you felt when you received your DOA Thinkpad you said he had a hand in getting to you. Too bad he couldn't succeed in obtaining a replacement. For you, a writer for an influential publication...
    End result? .

    Caveat: I'm *NOT* pounding on Mark (Like I have been accused of). He seems very nice, he is a pleasant fellow to deal with. Unfortunately caught in such a structure and in such a vast mess that he has in fact been rendered ineffective.
    And now, the Parthian shot from a sob revelling in irony. What's the need for -and therefore powers given to- a "Project Manager, Social Media / WW Customer Satisfaction Programs" when "Lenovo is committed to customer satisfaction by delivering products that are of superior quality to comparable offerings from our competitors ...."? (See: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/webca/LenovoPortal/en_CA/special-offers.workflow:ShowPromo?LandingPage=/All/CA/Lenovo_general/about_lenovo/product_quality

    I'm sorry not to be able to offer any solution other than complaining to the top, meaning Lenovo US, China, or International's CEO. Certainly not Canada, according to your writings. Are you privy to some e-mail addresses?
    And asking for a compensation... Or canceling your order.

    Chris, DO worry: I might take *YOU* up on your offer for help :-))).
  • kristian Posted Mar 15, 2008 by  kristian
    #28
    Astounding it is......... when smaller ordering issues arose in US, Misters from Lenovo stepped up and blogged about them. (Ref :- http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=84)

    I’m of the opinion that you Canadians deserve an official apology from Peter Mocker, oh.... Mockler I mean, a fine print on the website wouldn't hurt his grace (wonder if he has any.........), seriously these isolated instances are turning into laughing stocks, someone can write a management gone bad report on them.

    Another point to ponder for me is the last time I posted was a month ago and lenovo situation since then hasn’t gotten any better.

    To give you a credit for your awesome coverage, I’ve added a reference of this article in Wikipedia. (Citation number 30, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#_note-27)
  • Doggy Posted Mar 15, 2008 by  Doggy
    #29
    * We are the new. We are the Future. We are Lenovo. Think Lenovo *

    Lenovo, where Customer Service really means Customer at our Service:

    Two days after having received infos on my order, the same person who had e-mailed them (with C.C.: Sales rep.), sends me the following:
    "I would like to have your order number for my records. Can you please forward it to me via email."
    My answer:
    "According to your own -i.e. Lenovo's- records, Order Number:xxx, Order Date:01.03.2008.
    I'm just amazed at your ability to have answered questions specific to an order, like shipping date, without even knowing its number."
    She replies:
    "I had the order number at the time in which I was answering your email. Unfortunately I miss placed it. All the information im my email is accurate."

    Excerpts from e-mails from & to X (Innocent Protection Program),
    Americas Inside Sales Representative- Lenovo Ltd.
    2nd Level Support - Lenovo Canada

    (Please note that s/o who's just an average rep for Americas is elevated to 2nd Level for Canada...)

    * We are the new. We are the Future. We are Lenovo. Think Lenovo *

    Lenovo, where we care to protect our customers even when we shirk responsibility.

    "Warranty date begins when the unit is shipped for consumer protection. This way the order will be replaced if lost in transit."

    Lenovo, where we don't expect our invoices to be paid, but where we invoice your payments!

    "The invoice is generated at the time your payment is received."

    Both gems from X (I.P.P.),
    Customer Complaint Advocate
    Project Manager, Critical Situation Resolutions
    Lenovo, Americas
    10 York Mills, North York, Ontario, M2P 2G8
    Phone : 416-383-2683

    * We are the new. We are the Future. We are Lenovo. Think Lenovo *

    Lenovo, where we'll wear you down rather than promptly making up for our own shortcomings:
    - Don't return calls;
    - Just ignore any part of a letter you don't feel like answering;
    - Adhere to a strict pass-the-buck policy, always to some other pawn, even better if from another department;
    - Force the customer to start all over again.

    * We are the new. We are the Future. We are Lenovo. Think Lenovo *

    Lenovo, where leaving a paper trail could sometimes lead to some good laughs!
  • adam_mace Posted May 15, 2008 by  adam_mace
    #30
    Sorry to dredge up a 2 month old post, but I was wondering if there is any new information about this problem? I recently ordered a T61 with a bunch of extras such as 3GB RAM, 2.5GHz Processor, etc., but never knew about this shipping problem untill it was too late. Is this still a big concern, or have some of these issues been resolved?
  • avatar Posted May 20, 2008 by  Chris Hogg
    #31
    @ adam_mace
    Sorry to dredge up a 2 month old post, but I was wondering if there is any new information about this problem? I recently ordered a T61 with a bunch of extras such as 3GB RAM, 2.5GHz Processor, etc., but never knew about this shipping problem untill it was too late. Is this still a big concern, or have some of these issues been resolved?

    Sorry for the delay Adam but I was waiting for Lenovo to get back to me. They've just supplied the following statement:

    ======
    We are processing our orders with little or no issues. We want to thank our customers for their business and if they do have questions regarding the status of their orders they are encouraged to contact one of our customer representatives.

    -- Ann Mahdy
    Communications and Public Relations Manager
  • mike12 Posted May 22, 2008 by  mike12
    #32
    Lenovo still has issues, quite frustrating thing is there is no tracking facility available for Canadians, ironic part is a million or maybe billion dollar company couldn't give it's customers tracking information when on the other hand a small company on ebay could. The worst part is you wouldn't know which day the carrier is going to deliver your order due to lack of tracking information, businesses don't appreciate this attitude. Lenovo which also claims to be a company for business computers needs to learn the 101 of good business practice otherwise they'll be losing customers very soon.

    On contrast we ordered a computer from Apple they gave tracking information in 24 hours, shipped and delivered it in just two days.

    Mike

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