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2 more articles on this subject:
So far of the 775 prisoners held without rights in Guantanamo the US Government has admitted that the 420 of them were innocent people wrongfully detained. How do we know that they were innocent? Because they were released without charge!
If these people were dangerous terrorist then the government would be highly remiss in releasing them. The very fact that they have been released without any charges is prima facie evidence they should not have been there in the first place.
Some, such as the "Tipton Three" were British citizens held without charges for over two years and subjected to torture and abuse which included being:
...repeatedly punched, kicked, slapped, forcibly injected with drugs, deprived of sleep, hooded, photographed naked and subjected to body cavity searches and sexual and religious humiliations.
They also tell of having seen the "beating of mentally-ill inmates." Since civil rights are not on the top of the list of priorities at Guantanamo prison the US citizenry can be certain that it was not a concern for human rights, or even world opinion, that caused these people to be released. There was simply no evidence that they had done anything that would justify them being there.
Other wrongfully held prisoners include three children aged 13 to 15 that were held until January 2004 after which they were returned to Afghanistan since no evidence had been found of any wrong doing.
Fifteen Chinese Muslim prisoners were found in 2005 to not have been "enemy combatants after all." It was discovered that they simply:
were in the wrong place at the wrong time, some of them picked up by Pakistani bounty hunters for U.S. payoffs .
When lawyers for five of these men filed writs of habeas corpus in US District Court the men were suddenly sent to refugee camps in Albania and the Department of Justice filed an "Emergency Motion to Dismiss as Moot"
Barbara Olshansky, one of the lawyers for the innocent men described the move as an attempt by an embarrassed US government to:
"avoid having to answer in court for keeping innocent men in jail."
Other high profile innocents include journalist Sami al-Hajj, known to the world as Prisoner 345. Although the US Government has long known that he was innocent, and he is scheduled to be released at the end of next month, he has been held for years and subjected to inhumane treatment mainly because he refused to spy against Al-Jazeera.
Although apologists for the administration's criminal behavior try to make Guantanamo seem like some "Club Med" summer camp where prisoners spend their happy days in recreation and getting fat the fact remains that these were innocent people, with no proven links of any sort to terrorism, held without basic human rights, abused and unjustly robbed of years of their lives.
Many were sold to the gullible US officials by Afghan bounty hunters and their chief "crime" seems to have been to be of the wrong religion and of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. How many of those who make excuses for the administration's criminal behavior would be willing to trade places with any of the prisoners of Guantanamo who have been shown to have been innocent all along?
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
Benjamin Franklin
Bush's opinion of how many branches of government the US has.
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It is hard to understand how this continues.
I did some searching on Guantanamo and even where it is located it cannot be seen by many as to what goes on there.
According to this by Amnesty International there are hundreds who live in cruel, inhuman and in degrading conditions. This includes those are supposed to have been released.
It says that there are those who continue to be transferred there from secret CIA custody and elsewhere,
It is impossible for me to understand from what I have read and what you have written Lensman how this can continue. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
It is hard to understand how this continues.
I did some searching on Guantanamo and even where it is located it cannot be seen by many as to what goes on there.
According to this by Amnesty International there are hundreds who live in cruel, inhuman and in degrading conditions. This includes those are supposed to have been released.
It says that there are those who continue to be transferred there from secret CIA custody and elsewhere,
It is impossible for me to understand from what I have read and what you have written Lensman how this can continue.
It continues because some people do not believe in the rule of law or that people of different races or religions have the same human rights that we would like for ourselves.
In America we do not believe in "guilty until proven innocent" but that is the attitude of the apologist for this despicable blemish on the honor of the US. These people believe that if someone is foreign and Muslim that should be all it takes to strip them of human rights, whether they have done anything or not. -
This whole thing with Guantanamo is so disturbing that I can't believe there hasn't been more of a public outcry from the citizens of the US as well as from countries around the world. It's insane that our government would condone this...and it's even worse that nothing's been done long before now to end this nonsense.
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@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
This whole thing with Guantanamo is so disturbing that I can't believe there hasn't been more of a public outcry from the citizens of the US as well as from countries around the world. It's insane that our government would condone this...and it's even worse that nothing's been done long before now to end this nonsense.
Countries around the world are screaming their heads off but the American media seldom covers this and when they do most Americans simply ignore it or pass it off as "anti-American propaganda."
As for the American people themselves they would do well to remember the words of the Protestant pastor Martin Niemöller:
When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.
If we are willing to ignore the human rights of others why should anyone care about our rights? -
It is too bad when those who see nothing wrong with the camp point out that it isn't as bad as other places because "no prisoner at Gitmo has been filmed being beheaded by their sword-wielding captors."
Does that mean it is OK to mistreat prisoners as long as you aren't as bad as someone else?
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@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
It is too bad when those who see noting wrong with the camp point out that it isn't as bad as other places because "no prisoner at Gitmo has been filmed being beheaded by their sword-wielding captors."
Does that mean it is OK to mistreat prisoners as long as you aren't as bad as someone else?
There are some people who see the abuse of people of other races or religions as no big deal. In these people's minds "suspected" and "guilty" are the same thing. They say things like:
Have there been violations of prisoners rights? More than likely. Again, that comes with the running of a prison.
Apparently trampling on human rights is no big deal.
One wonders if they could be so cavalier if it were their rights that were being violated or those of a loved one? -
@ lensman67
Apparently trampling on human rights is no big deal.
One wonders if they could be so cavalier if it were their rights that were being violated or those of a loved one?
No there isn't anything wrong with trampling on the rights of others as long as they aren't your rights or of those that you know.
There isn't anything wrong with throwing someone in prison especially if they don't believe as you do or look like you. Who cares if they are innocent. Even when they are innocent is it really that important to release them and help them after.
It is unbelieveable. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
No there isn't anything wrong with trampling on the rights of others as long as they aren't your rights or of those that you know.
There isn't anything wrong with throwing someone in prison especially if they don't believe as you do or look like you. Who cares if they are innocent. Even when they are innocent is it really that important to release them and help them after.
It is unbelieveable.
This policy has caused foreign governments to stop sharing intelligence with us that may help protect us from another attack and many countries will no longer extradite to the US because we are listed as an abuser of human rights--a rogue nation!
This sort of thing makes America LESS safe, not more.
The worse part is that all around the world there are people who are learning to hate the US because they see us as not caring about their rights. -
Unbelievable. Bush sure has left us with one Hell of a legacy.
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@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
Unbelievable. Bush sure has left us with one Hell of a legacy.
The Bush Legacy. ;o) -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
Unbelievable. Bush sure has left us with one Hell of a legacy.
Any president when told something is against the Constitution says it is just a G.d piece of paper and he does not follow it has lost all creditability in my eyes.
What I belive now is not BDS it is looking at what has been and continues to go on. -
@ lensman67
The Bush Legacy. ;o)
Exactly. Only thing, I believe that this may be something that won't be easily cleaned-up or undone. -
For those who think it is no big deal to hold innocent people prisoner without human rights:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9900E7D61238F934A25755C0A9659C8B63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1
Question. If an innocent person is held captive against their will and subjected to torture and humiliation do they have a right to "pay back" once they are released? -
But the men said that for the first few months, they were kept in small wire-mesh cells, about 6 1/2 feet by 8 feet , in blocks of 10 or 20. The cells were covered by a wooden roof, but open at the sides to the elements.
Can anyone say that this is humane treatment? -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Can anyone say that this is humane treatment?
People who make excuses for the administration really don't care about humane treatment of people who are of different religions or races.
These people think that if innocent people are held for a few years and abused a bit no big deal. -
@ lensman67
People who make excuses for the administration really don't care about humane treatment of people who are of different religions or races.
These people think that if innocent people are held for a few years and abused a bit no big deal.
Even if a person was imprisoned under the very best of conditions and they were not guilty it is still wrong and inhumane to do so. It is even worse when it is known that they are innocent and still aren't released.
It is even worse if they are not getting medical treatment that is needed whether guilty or innocent. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
Even if a person was imprisoned under the very best of conditions and they were not guilty it is still wrong and inhumane to do so. It is even worse when it is known that they are innocent and still aren't released.
It is even worse if they are not getting medical treatment that is needed whether guilty or innocent.
One innocent guy was held for a year and a half and only after he had tried to commit suicide was he told that he was "only" being held for "questioning" and would some day be allowed to go home.
Gee. How nice. -
This prison is representative of the Bush regime more than anything.
What gets me most is that Bush supporters still find a way to downplay it despite all the facts.The other thing is these people seem oblivious to how damaging this type of behavior is for American democracy.
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@ lensman67
One innocent guy was held for a year and a half and only after he had tried to commit suicide was he told that he was "only" being held for "questioning" and would some day be allowed to go home.
Gee. How nice.
One of my daughters and her husband were friends with another couple. They traded house keys so that when one or the other was on vacation the other couple would go and feed the cats and birds of the other.
My daughter and her husband always seemed to have money missing. When they were gone one day and there had been over a thousand dollars cash left on the kitchen counter when they got home it was gone.
Without going into details of money missing over several years time it was finally proven that the wife had been stealing from my daughter and her husband for years to help her feed her gambling addiction.
I knew the couple as they both would come into the art gallery and gift store that my daughter owned and I worked there.
The "friend" was sentenced to prison for over five to twenty years.
Because she seemed nice I often think about her and wonder what it would be like to have your life to basically end and to be locked up and your life can never be the same again.
Then to think of being locked up and to know that you are innocent and your life has ended from what it was and would have been like for you. Even worse is knowing that those who are keeping you locked up and not releasing you know that you are innocent. Then to give as a reason you are kept for questioning?? -
@ Bocephalus
This prison is representative of the Bush regime more than anything.
What gets me most is that Bush supporters still find a way to downplay it despite all the facts.The other thing is these people seem oblivious to how damaging this type of behavior is for American democracy.
The truly disgusting thing is how they try to "justify" mistreatment of innocent prisoners held by the US government by citing the mistreatment of Americans held by terrorist, thereby saying to all who are paying attention that they do not hold America to any higher standards than those of the terrorist.
The other sickening thing is their cavalier attitude. If innocent people are being held, they argue, they will eventually be set free--no big deal that they had years stolen from their lives and were made to suffer pain and degradation at the hands of the US government. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
One of my daughters and her husband were friends with another couple. They traded house keys so that when one or the other was on vacation the other couple would go and feed the cats and birds of the other.
My daughter and her husband always seemed to have money missing. When they were gone one day and there had been over a thousand dollars cash left on the kitchen counter when they got home it was gone.
Without going into details of money missing over several years time it was finally proven that the wife had been stealing from my daughter and her husband for years to help her feed her gambling addiction.
I knew the couple as they both would come into the art gallery and gift store that my daughter owned and I worked there.
The "friend" was sentenced to prison for over five to twenty years.
Because she seemed nice I often think about her and wonder what it would be like to have your life to basically end and to be locked up and your life can never be the same again.
Then to think of being locked up and to know that you are innocent and your life has ended from what it was and would have been like for you. Even worse is knowing that those who are keeping you locked up and not releasing you know that you are innocent. Then to give as a reason you are kept for questioning??
To the sort of people who make excuses for the administration people of other races and religions are not fully human and therefore do not deserve human rights. -
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Posted Feb 24, 2008 by MEA |
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#22
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The absolute inability of the reactionaries on this blog is indicated by the absence of any comment from any of them.
Yet they seem to be more or less in control of this entire blog!
I am amazed that such a nest of vipers can continue to exist on the internet for so long as this blog has.
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@ lensman67
The other sickening thing is their cavalier attitude. If innocent people are being held, they argue, they will eventually be set free--no big deal that they had years stolen from their lives and were made to suffer pain and degradation at the hands of the US government.
No big deal to them.
It might be different if someone close to them had been jailed for something that they never did.
That stigma of having been in jail and their feelings of it do not go away. -
@ MEA
The absolute inability of the reactionaries on this blog is indicated by the absence of any comment from any of them.
Yet they seem to be more or less in control of this entire blog!
I am amazed that such a nest of vipers can continue to exist on the internet for so long as this blog has.
Interesting comment MEA.
This is the best question that I have heard all night which was on another post.
When do you plan on expanding your research so you can write a similarly well-written thoughtful piece on the positive aspects of torture? -
@ MEA
The absolute inability of the reactionaries on this blog is indicated by the absence of any comment from any of them.
Yet they seem to be more or less in control of this entire blog!
I am amazed that such a nest of vipers can continue to exist on the internet for so long as this blog has.
The "Swarm" are relative new comers and mainly talk only to themselves. They spend a lot of time congratulating one another on their robot like adherence to Right Wing ideology. Since they are impervious to logic or any facts it is seldom worth the trouble to engage with them. -
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
When do you plan on expanding your research so you can write a similarly well-written thoughtful piece on the positive aspects of torture?
I don't know if they will be able to pick up on sarcasm. Many are quite convinced that there is nothing wrong with torture and if a few innocent people get tortured--well no big deal. -
@ lensman67
I don't know if they will be able to pick up on sarcasm. Many are quite convinced that there is nothing wrong with torture and if a few innocent people get tortured--well no big deal.
You are right there Lensman about picking up on sarcasm. They have missed it a few times. -
Nicely done, Lensman.
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@ 666divine
Nicely done, Lensman.
Thanks. The facts speak for themselves which is why the apologists for the administration are so determined to cloud the issue. They say things like:
...the detainees at Gitmo ARE enemies--and if they are innocent, they have been found to be so and released.
What they don't want people to notice is that MORE THAT HALF have already been "found innocent" and released--but not before they had suffered years of unjust confinement, torture and degradation.
Of the rest of the captives evidence suggests that they too are innocent and we know for a fact that innocent people like Sami al-Hajj, who has been there for six years are still there. The US government has already admitted that Sami al-Hajj is innocent and are planning to release him at the end of next month--with no reason given for why they have not released him already.
So far not one single solitary captive has ever been convicted of any crime whatsoever and the show trials that the administration are planning to coincide with the presidential elections, in yet another attempt to derail the democratic process in this country, are not from the original population of 775 but were recently transferred in from secret gulags elsewhere so that their preordained convictions can provide a smoke screen to hide the other injustices of the shame of Guantanamo. -
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Posted Feb 25, 2008 by MEA |
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#30
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The Swarm is an interesting sobriquet for that crowd of five would be bundsmen..
If in fact they are of relative recent vintage how is it they have gotten so cozy and influential with the ostensible manager--and hall monitor--of this site?
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@ MEA
The Swarm is an interesting sobriquet for that crowd of five would be bundsmen..
If in fact they are of relative recent vintage how is it they have gotten so cozy and influential with the ostensible manager--and hall monitor--of this site?
 A Swarm hive is almost impossible to detect. When a hapless victim stumbles on a forum that houses a Swarm and disturbs it with an offending message, the Swarm will erupt and fly at their victim from all directions. Taken one at a time the irrelevant, often mindless individual attacks can be easily brushed aside, but because of the sheer volume of the assault even the strongest Warriors must eventually yield. WARNING: Only those who are highly skilled in Swarm management techniques should attempt to wade into a Swarm hive. but even with protective clothing opposing Warriors should expect to suffer a few stings.
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@ lensman67
The worse part is that all around the world there are people who are learning to hate the US because they see us as not caring about their rights.
How dare these prisoners not admit to being All-American Star-Spangled Democratic Citizens ?
They therefore deserve everything that can be thrown at them ! Add a Comment
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Op Ed: Guantanimo: What part of innocent is unclear?
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