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It's become an epidemic with no end in sight. In less than two weeks, two Elmira women have suffocated their babies. Both of the infants were no more than two months old. What is driving these young mothers to the breaking point?
Elmira, New York -- Yesterday morning, plastered all over the local news was the story of yet another young mother who has been charged with the murder of her 1 1/2-month-old baby girl.
A woman, was charged with second-degree murder in the death of her baby girl.
The felony complaint says the woman: "...created a grave risk of death to Kenya Payne by holding her hand over the infant's face in an attempt to prevent the infant from crying and thereby caused the death of Kenya Payne who was then less than two months of age." Police responded to a call at 5 a.m. Sunday morning regarding a report of an unresponsive infant. When the police arrived, they found the baby not breathing. All attempts to resuscitate the baby failed and she was pronounced dead at the hospital. Autopsy reports are due in today.
Less than two weeks ago, on November 16, another woman was charged with the murder of her 2-month-old son. According to court documents, the baby was smothered with a pillow.
As WETM-TV reports: "At about 3 am Friday morning Elmira Police, Elmira Fire, and Erway Ambulance was called to 438 Broadway. When they arrived they found an unresponsive child. The baby boy was taken to Arnot Ogden for treatment, but he was pronounced dead." At this point, it's not known if the autopsy report is in yet on Tysere's cause of death, as there seems to be a difference of opinion between the woman's lawyer and the District Attorney's office in this regard.
Two young mothers. Two dead babies. We have to wonder why; what drove them to the breaking point? Was it unintentional? Was it done out of anger or frustration? Are these mothers suffering with depression? Or maternal stress disorders?
The statistics are also pretty ugly: In America, mothers are responsible for most child abuse cases where the infant or child dies.
Court TV reports: "[The]National Incidence of Child Abuse and Neglect report numbers as high as 78 per cent, and according to Dr. Joseph Deltito, a professor of psychiatry at the New York Medical College." Court TV also reports: "Often they claim to be victims of a range of disorders from postpartum depression to post traumatic stress to outright psychosis, and they're supported by a wealth of mental health agencies and social groups. Some go so far as to say that society is responsible." Two names: Susan Smith and Andrea Yates made national news in 1994 and 2001 when they killed their children. In either case, little if any remorse was ever shown over what they had done.
Are young mothers becoming so detached from their emotions and becoming unable to bond with their babies?
Recently, we also had the Baby Grace story that has torn at our emotions. Even her own death was enough to anger us and make us wonder "why?"
So many questions with no real answers. Even if we could understand why these women kill their babies, is there a way we could stop this epidemic?
If you knew why a mother killed her baby, would you feel sorry for her? Would it change how you felt about the murder of a baby or child?
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If you knew 'why' a mother killed her baby, would you feel sorry for her? Would it change how you felt about the murder of a baby or child?
In a word no....
Those statistics are downright frightening and honestly I would never have believed them to be so through the roof
Often they claim to be victims of a range of disorders from postpartum depression to post traumatic stress to outright psychosis, and they're supported by a wealth of mental health agencies and social groups. Some go so far as to say that society is responsible."
I am pretty speechless at this point ...i'll have to gather my thoughts but I really don't think I will ever be able to understand... -
@ patxxoo
I am pretty speechless at this point ...i'll have to gather my thoughts but I really don't think I will ever be able to understand...
I know how you feel, patxxoo. I wasn't sure at first how I wanted to handle these two stories so I went this way. I can't believe all the deaths we're seeing anymore where mothers kill their babies. I wanted to find a more recent article that had stats in it, but the only one I found was the one I linked to above. -
Would it change how you felt about the murder of a baby or child? No, however, it would possibly provide some insight that could reduce these horrifying incidents. -
@ Bob Ewing
No, however, it would possibly provide some insight that could reduce these horrifying incidents.
I wish that we could learn more about why these women do this. I am positive that it's the sum total of many different things in each woman's life, but there has to be a reason that some of these women have a glitch in themselves that lead to this. -
The society has changed, before the families used to live close and share the burdens, mothers used to teach the daughters and the daughters taught theirs. There was less stress involved. But that is not the case now, they live separate and far, either the mother tells them and the daughter doesn't listen or the mothers don't tell them what to do. They get children very young when they hardly know anything about being a parent. All this is causing problems. Before they get a baby they need to learn but they can't learn by trial and error. Most of the problems we have is because of the latter. Unless there is suitable education, these things will happen again.
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I think one condition which should be looked into is postpartrum depression. It's a very serious condition and if family members were aware of the signs, they may help to save the life of the newborns and that of the moms.
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@ Chris V. (cgull)
The society has changed, before the families used to live close and share the burdens, mothers used to teach the daughters and the daughters taught theirs. There was less stress involved. But that is not the case now, they live separate and far, either the mother tells them and the daughter doesn't listen or the mothers don't tell them what to do. They get children very young when they hardly know anything about being a parent. All this is causing problems. Before they get a baby they need to learn but they can't learn by trial and error. Most of the problems we have is because of the latter. Unless there is suitable education, these things will happen again.
I am in agreement with everything that cgull has said.
I was young when I had my first child, only 20, but my mother and mother-in-law were there to help and give advice.
So many now are having children so much younger, just in their teens. They do not know the responsibility that is involved with that tiny little person with a mind of its own that can scream and you don't know what is wrong with it.
I am definitely with Pat I do not feel sorry for the mother who takes the life of her child.
Excellent story Sky and very well written. -
@ Chris V. (cgull)
The society has changed, before the families used to live close and share the burdens, mothers used to teach the daughters and the daughters taught theirs. There was less stress involved. But that is not the case now, they live separate and far, either the mother tells them and the daughter doesn't listen or the mothers don't tell them what to do. They get children very young when they hardly know anything about being a parent. All this is causing problems. Before they get a baby they need to learn but they can't learn by trial and error. Most of the problems we have is because of the latter. Unless there is suitable education, these things will happen again.
And you are right, this will happen again and again.
But where do we begin? I know that some high schools have classes regarding parenting...is that enough though?
Why is it that some young women don't do this to their children nor has the thought ever crossed their minds? -
@ 666divine
I think one condition which should be looked into is postpartrum depression. It's a very serious condition and if family members were aware of the signs, they may help to save the life of the newborns and that of the moms.
This is true, postpartum depression is a serious condition and many young women go undiagnosed. Perhaps you are right, 666...if family members know the signs, this could prevent such tragedies.
@ Cynthia T. [Picasso]
I am in agreement with everything that cgull has said.
I was young when I had my first child, only 20, but my mother and mother-in-law were there to help and give advice.
So many now are having children so much younger, just in their teens. They do not know the responsibility that is involved with that tiny little person with a mind of its own that can scream and you don't know what is wrong with it.
I am definitely with Pat I do not feel sorry for the mother who takes the life of her child.
Excellent story Sky and very well written.
Thank you, Picasso.
I also am not able to find compassion for a woman who'd kill their own child. Even on my worst days, I would have never thought about hurting them in any way. -
Many women, young and older suffer postpartum depression which goes undiagnosed and many end up doing the unthinkable. It is not diagnosed and dealt with enough.
It is strange that the local media has picked up on it and even stranger that it happens so much in one area.
Just like post war depression, this needs to be talked about more while offering the help needed for these individuals.
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@ Posthappy
Many women, young and older suffer postpartum depression which goes undiagnosed and many end up doing the unthinkable. It is not diagnosed and dealt with enough.
It is strange that the local media has picked up on it and even stranger that it happens so much in one area.
Just like post war depression, this needs to be talked about more while offering the help needed for these individuals.
It is strange that we've had two women charged with the murders of their infants in less than two weeks, and the very thought you brought up were also in my mind and prompted this article. Awareness will help, because we are seeing this happen more and more often.
(PS: Thanks, Chris for doing some editing! I like the changes!)
Thanks for your thoughts, Posthappy! -
I also am not able to find compassion for a woman who'd kill their own child. Even on my worst days, I would have never thought about hurting them in any way.
... and that is a mother.
Good, important and timely piece skyangel.
Not to discount the very real syndrome of postpartum depression, but it has become an excuse for killing children. There are agencies, doctors, hospitals, churches and other women to turn to if one is feeling overwhelmed or a danger to babies and children. Asking for help does not indicate weakness in a mother, but strength and love for your child or children. My halfpenny. -
@ Helena Handbasket
... and that is a mother.
Good, important and timely piece skyangel.
Not to discount the very real syndrome of postpartum depression, but it has become an excuse for killing children. There are agencies, doctors, hospitals, churches and other women to turn to if one is feeling overwhelmed or a danger to babies and children. Asking for help does not indicate weakness in a mother, but strength and love for your child or children. My halfpenny.
I welcome your half-penny, Helena! Very nicely put...and oh so true! -
@ Helena Handbasket
... and that is a mother.
Good, important and timely piece skyangel.
Not to discount the very real syndrome of postpartum depression, but it has become an excuse for killing children. There are agencies, doctors, hospitals, churches and other women to turn to if one is feeling overwhelmed or a danger to babies and children. Asking for help does not indicate weakness in a mother, but strength and love for your child or children. My halfpenny.
Women who are suffering from postpartum depression are often not aware of it. It may start off as the "baby blues" but can easily turn into psychotic depression, at which point the mom is not responsible for her actions. I think that awareness of this illness should be something which should be included in prenatal as well as post natal care. -
are often not aware of it.
Sure. But, those around the mother are aware. Ignoring the obvious doesn't make it go away. If a mother is close to a psychotic break it is apparent in behaviour/symptoms. Then it falls to others to intervene with love and support. Unless a woman is isolated in the backwoods without phone or visitors -- someone knows.
I think that awareness of this illness should be something which should be included in prenatal as well as post natal care.
Absolutely. -
@ Helena Handbasket
Absolutely.
Unfortunately the signs are not always so obvious. There was a case here in which a doctor who dealt with patients suffering from postpartum depression found that she too ended up suffering from the condition. And even though she was an expert in the field, when it happened to her, she was unable to detect it which result in the doctor becoming a victim to the decease and ended up killing herself and her baby. -
@ 666divine
Unfortunately the signs are not always so obvious. There was a case here in which a doctor who dealt with patients suffering from postpartum depression found that she too ended up suffering from the condition. And even though she was an expert in the field, when it happened to her, she was unable to detect it which result in the doctor becoming a victim to the decease and ended up killing herself and her baby.
... and that always saddens me divine. I remember the case you speak of. -
The sad thing is that women who have given birth and experience PPD even in it's mildest form do not talk about it. Why? I can give you two reasons; shame and fear.
Shame for having such horrific thoughts and images of hurting their babies and fear that they will be considered as being crazy hence the fear of losing their babies. If women feel that they can openly discuss these feelings, there might be a way of family members to keep a watchful eye on them simply by continued discussion. But if women fear that slightest unmaternal feelings which they experience is a sign that they are unfit mothers then, they will withdraw further into claws of PPD.
I think that this would be a good place where women can share some of their "unmaternal feelings, thoughts and images" and hopefully realize that it's quite normal to have them. What is not normal is actualizing them.
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@ 666divine
Unfortunately the signs are not always so obvious. There was a case here in which a doctor who dealt with patients suffering from postpartum depression found that she too ended up suffering from the condition. And even though she was an expert in the field, when it happened to her, she was unable to detect it which result in the doctor becoming a victim to the decease and ended up killing herself and her baby.
I don't think I've heard about the case you've mentioned, 666. Very sad. -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
I don't think I've heard about the case you've mentioned, 666. Very sad.
Yes, it is. In this particular case, this woman through herself and her 8 month old baby into the subway. The child died immediately, she died a few days later. -
@ 666divine
The sad thing is that women who have given birth and experience PPD even in it's mildest form do not talk about it. Why? I can give you two reasons; shame and fear.
Shame for having such horrific thoughts and images of hurting their babies and fear that they will be considered as being crazy hence the fear of losing their babies. If women feel that they can openly discuss these feelings, there might be a way of family members to keep a watchful eye on them simply by continued discussion. But if women fear that slightest unmaternal feelings which they experience is a sign that they are unfit mothers then, they will withdraw further into claws of PPD.
I think that this would be a good place where women can share some of their "unmaternal feelings, thoughts and images" and hopefully realize that it's quite normal to have them. What is not normal is actualizing them.
Here...exposure to postpartum depression via media and talking about it can help. You are right, as with all forms of depression, there's a stigma attached to it and those suffering with it see it as being wrong and not for disease that it is. -
@ 666divine
Yes, it is. In this particular case, this woman through herself and her 8 month old baby into the subway. The child died immediately, she died a few days later.
Wow. That's an act of sheer desperation, driven by the depression. -
Thanks for this eyeopening article skyangel ..honestly when i first read it my first thought was that some of this postpartum depression stuff was baloney (hey i'm being honest here) but i've been reading up on it and the things i've read is scary stuff...
i just thought it was supposed to affect some women within a short time after the birth of a child but this is what i found (after i got my computer back up, durn thing crashed and wiped a post out):
What is the difference between “baby blues,”postpartum depression, and postpartum psychosis?
The baby blues can happen in the days right after childbirth and normally go away within a few days to a week. A new mother can have sudden mood swings, sadness, crying spells, loss of appetite, sleeping problems, and feel irritable, restless, anxious, and lonely. Symptoms are not severe and treatment isn’t needed. But there are things you can do to feel better. Nap when the baby does. Ask for help from your spouse, family members, and friends. Join a support group of new moms or talk with other moms.
Postpartum depression can happen anytime within the first year after childbirth. A woman may have a number of symptoms such as sadness, lack of energy, trouble concentrating, anxiety, and feelings of guilt and worthlessness. The difference between postpartum depression and the baby blues is that postpartum depression often affects a woman’s well-being and keeps her from functioning well for a longer period of time. Postpartum depression needs to be treated by a doctor. Counseling, support groups, and medicines are things that can help.
Postpartum psychosis is rare. It occurs in 1 or 2 out of every 1000 births and usually begins in the first 6 weeks postpartum. Women who have bipolar disorder or another psychiatric problem called schizoaffective disorder have a higher risk for developing postpartum psychosis. Symptoms may include delusions, hallucinations, sleep disturbances, and obsessive thoughts about the baby. A woman may have rapid mood swings, from depression to irritability to euphoria.
What steps can I take if I have symptoms of depression during pregnancy or after childbirth?
Some women don’t tell anyone about their symptoms because they feel embarrassed, ashamed, or guilty about feeling depressed when they are supposed to be happy. They worry that they will be viewed as unfit parents. Perinatal depression can happen to any woman. It does not mean you are a bad or “not together” mom. You and your baby don’t have to suffer. There is help. (link) -
@ Debra Myers (skyangel)
Here...exposure to postpartum depression via media and talking about it can help. You are right, as with all forms of depression, there's a stigma attached to it and those suffering with it see it as being wrong and not for disease that it is.
I have spoken to many moms who have had weird thoughts and images of hurting their babies. They range from throwing their baby down a flight of stairs to putting their baby into the oven. Any new mom with these kinds of thoughts is going to think that she's crazy and is also going to fear that someone will take her baby away from her. The irony is, that it's normal to have these type of thoughts. What isn't normal is acting upon them. If women feel free to talk about what they are thinking and feeling they might find support from their family and friends but keeping these things to oneself can only lead to a real depression. How many mom's here on DJ have not had some serious sick thoughts after childbirth but never acted upon them? -
Thanks, patxxoo. This should help clear up some confusion, especially between all the terms. I had not heard of "Postpartum psychosis" before, so this was interesting to read. In all the various cases we've seen in the media, I wonder how many of those women had this.
There is a young woman that I know that went through the postpartum depression. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with her baby for several months after the baby was born. She let her boyfriend "deal" with the baby. It passed, but I can't say whether it was due to getting help, or she recovered on her own. I've heard of many women who have gone through this, but never went so far as to hurt their babies.
It's a tough subject to swallow, and I'm sure that you've been thinking about Baby Grace...Riley Ann Sawyers' own death and whether her mother falls into this category someplace.
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@ 666divine
I have spoken to many moms who have had weird thoughts and images of hurting their babies. They range from throwing their baby down a flight of stairs to putting their baby into the oven. Any new mom with these kinds of thoughts is going to think that she's crazy and is also going to fear that someone will take her baby away from her. The irony is, that it's normal to have these type of thoughts. What isn't normal is acting upon them. If women feel free to talk about what they are thinking and feeling they might find support from their family and friends but keeping these things to oneself can only lead to a real depression. How many mom's here on DJ have not had some serious sick thoughts after childbirth but never acted upon them?
I can honestly say that I never did. I will admit that there's been times where besides pulling my own hair out that I wanted to pull the kid's hair out too...but never did. Anytime that I disciplined my kids a little too hard, as a spanking that was a little too hard, I felt horrible about afterwards. Sometimes so much so that a sat down and bawled.
Anyone else have any input? -
Yeah I have had Riley on the brain, (that was the post that crashed my computer so i'm taking that as a sign to wait and see what happens in her case in the next few days, still hope the mom rots though after reading the pdf file of the cause for arrest of her husband)
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@ patxxoo
Yeah I have had Riley on the brain, (that was the post that crashed my computer so i'm taking that as a sign to wait and see what happens in her case in the next few days, still hope the mom rots though after reading the pdf file of the cause for arrest of her husband)
I know. All these cases make you want to sit and a corner and cry for those little lost lives. -
For me it was more along the lines of harming myself at one point after my second daughter, starting over by myself with 2 in diapers at 19, along the lines of they would be better off with someone else...now that was one of the darkest times in my life...and a stranger actually snapped me out of it .....
See, the kinds of thoughts of harming a child much less one of my own are one of the reasons I couldn't wrap my brain around it...after going through having em there no way was anybody gonna hurt one of mine, now, them as adults i'd like to give a swift kick to ocassionally though
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I know what you mean about giving your adult kids a swift kick! That's the way I feel about my grandchildren these days...anyone harms them, I get first dibs on their @#!*& butts!
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Here's an update on the first story that I mentioned above. -
I think that awareness of this illness should be something which should be included in prenatal as well as post natal care.
Coming in late here. I think this is excellent advice--there's so much information in pre-natal classes about feeding, bathing and changing--but not a whole lot to help you when you feel so overwhelmed all you CAN do is sit down and bawl, particularly if you have no older female around to help you out and guide you.
I went from "baby blues" into deep depression with my first and it lasted almost a year. I felt so guilty because here was this beautiful child and I just couldn't take any joy from her. Now, she's 26, has three of her own and boy, I did all I could to be here for her--her youngest just turned 1 yesterday, but there's only 9 months, literally between her middle and youngest. We only live a few blocks from each other and I was happy to stop by after work and take the kids so she could get, at the very least, some rest.
It's heart-wrenching mothers are turning on their children--and I've seen enough of the dead, through my job, and yet I will never be able to understand. I can try to empathizse if it's something chemical in their brain, serotonin, major hormone drops, etc., but still--get help somehow. Don't kill either yourself or your child! What's even more heartwrenching is there is so much help available, but as many of you have pointed out, it's not easily recognizable. Let's hope it becomes more recognizable--maybe there wouldn't be so many tragedies such as this if it were easier to diagnose. I just don't have the answers for that, though. -
Thank you, MissBeth for your thoughts. I was very lucky with my children not to have gone through any of the post-natal depression, but I have seen plenty of women over the years that have.
I know what you're talking about when your grandchildren are born close together! My daugher had two very close together as well, less that 1 year apart, but since I live with her, she has the help she needs. (BTW-her 3td baby is due in about 7 weeks! Her other two are now 4 & 5.)
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A woman may have a number of symptoms such as sadness, lack of energy, trouble concentrating, anxiety, and feelings of guilt and worthlessness.
That is so 100% correct!
I have had post partum depression after all three of my children and in this case it didn't end by the time I got pregnant again. I have never thought about killing my children though. My thoughts were more along the lines of jumping in the car and leaving for a long time. In my case having an older female around made matters worse because she saw me as an unstable person and practically took my kids away from me. She criticised me infront of them, and tried to "protect" them from me when I would do simple disciplining. Like sit and eat your food, and time out for smart mouthing. stuff like that.
She eventually left after she tried pulling that crap with my husband. What helped me get out of the PPD( at least for a bit at a time) was being free to be a mom, to make mistakes, to make the right choices and just live and experience my children.
Young mothers don't get much chance to be moms anymore. There is so much expectations like, work at job, clean the house, cook dinner, mow the lawn, fix the broken light bulb all while juggling your kids. Honestly it is overwhelming. Women are these " you can and must do it all" types of creatures and lets face it, no matter how awesome some women are not everyone can do it like that.
My doctor said he would get me pills if I wanted them to help calm my depression but I elected to let it take its natural course and I am still going in and out of it at times. My youngest is only a year. I am glad I have such a wonderful husband to help me.
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Am...I have to give you credit for trying to deal with this without the use of medications. Meds are not the perfect cure-all...and can sometimes do more harm than good.
You are right about women having to be super-moms as it is with out the expectations that are placed on us by society. I think the best piece of advice I ever got from my therapist was not to beat myself up for what was out of my control. We can do only what we can, with what we were given (as information/teachings from our childhood/teen years).
My own depression started in my childhood...but I am sooo thankful that it never resulted in PPD. I'm glad that your husband does give you the support you need...that is wonderful!
By the sounds of it, Am...you're doing just fine! :))
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UPDATE:
Two Elmira mothers accused of smothering their babies will not face murder charges.
Both have been incited on manslaughter charges instead.
In both cases, the mother smothered their baby.
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